M305 & Bipod - Accuracy Issue

chrisward3

chrisward3

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Picked up an M305 last month (new) in an archangel stock. I have added a CASM rail and S&J Oprod kit.

Shooting off a bench with a front rest (a block of wood and a rolled up shooting mat), and a rear bag...I was getting ~1.5" groups at 100yds

Shooting off an Atlas bipod from prone with a rear bag at 100yds...well I didn't even bother measuring the shotgun pattern that resulted.

My question is, could loading the bipod cause the stock to flex enough to affect accuracy?
 
I think you just told me it is ? I wouldn't think that loading the bipod would make that much difference but the only other change is your shooting position , again , shouldn't make that much diff . I need pretty good ammo to keep a 1.5" group . My bet would be different ammo ?
 
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I have never found shooting off a bi-pod was as good as shooting off bags..... irregardless of the platform being utilized!

That said, the way a m-14 pattern rifle interfaces with the stock, any loading of the bi-pod will have an effect on poi and group size.

Harmonics and draw weight are a pretty big deal with this platform.

John
 
Mount a good quality bipod onto the stock, not the gas tube or barrel. Cheap bipods will toss your groups, and a bipod mount on your barrel adds mass that will change the barrel vibrations.
 
I have an M14 in an Archangel stock. I use a QD rail mounted Harris Adapter and a Harris Bipod on the bottom rail. I'm getting 1.25" groups at a 100y that way or better. It groups basically the same as when using a front sandbag. The stock is quite solid and I would doubt that flexing is your problem. How is your prone shooting with other rifles? Also, try shooting off the bench with your Atlas bipod and see if there is a problem.
 
joe6167 said:
What exactly does "loading" a bipod refer to? Thanks.
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Pushing slightly forward on the rifle while shooting with a bipod. You don't want it just sitting there like you would shoot on sandbags, you want to load pressure on the bipod by pushing slightly forward on the rifle to take up slack....ie loading.
At least with a normal bolt action that's the way you do it for consistency, not sure the proper technique when shooting with a bipod on the M14.
Article for you.
http://www.accuracy-tech.com/loading-a-bipod/
 
Not unusual for a semi to have issues from a bipod....and the M14 is a fussy bugger with stock/action issues.

My Norc 305 shoots well from bags or improvised rests, and really well from a sling supported offhand position....when I'm up to it.
I can totally see how it would not like a bipod as the stock is very flexy up forward.

I'm not a fan of bipods at all so biased.....I'll take any form of improvised "bag" over a bipod anytime. Especially with a semi auto.
 
My m1a with wood stock shoots fine off the bipod . Mines a smith enterprise bipod attached to a front rail . No diff between bipod bags or bench or prone
 
RifleDude said:
I have an M14 in an Archangel stock. I use a QD rail mounted Harris Adapter and a Harris Bipod on the bottom rail. I'm getting 1.25" groups at a 100y that way or better. It groups basically the same as when using a front sandbag. The stock is quite solid and I would doubt that flexing is your problem. How is your prone shooting with other rifles? Also, try shooting off the bench with your Atlas bipod and see if there is a problem.
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No issues with loading the bipod on my AIAX chassis, which is where the concern of a metal forend vice a polymer flexing came up. I may repurpose a bag/front support and shoot it traditionally from the prone to see where that puts me. This was shot with S&B 147gr FMJ, and will start working up reloads soon to see how accuracy improves.
 
fiddler said:
Mount a good quality bipod onto the stock, not the gas tube or barrel. Cheap bipods will toss your groups, and a bipod mount on your barrel adds mass that will change the barrel vibrations.
Click to expand...

This is a very good quality bipod with a secure railed mount to the forend of the stock. No additional contact with the barrel or gas tube. I suspect it the stock is flexing and putting pressure on other parts of the system.
 
3 round groups or 5? I ask because getting 1.5" 5 round groups out of a Norc with a stock barrel/bolt shooting factory/surplus ammo is quite phenomenal. If you've been shooting 3 round groups I'd say there was the potential that the groups you got shooting off the bench just weren't indicative of the rifle's actual accuracy. How many groups from the bench are you comparing to how many groups from prone?

Have you done any other mods to the rifle, i.e. shim the gas system, properly align the oprod guide, bed the action?

I don't have any experience with the Archangel stock so dunno if it's flexy or not but you could reinforce the front of the stock, as is done in the USGI stocks, with a bunch of fibreglass and/or carbon fibre arrow shafts which should get rid of the flexing, if that is the issue.
 
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rugbydave said:
3 round groups or 5? I ask because getting 1.5" 5 round groups out of a Norc with a stock barrel/bolt shooting factory/surplus ammo is quite phenomenal. If you've been shooting 3 round groups I'd say there was the potential that the groups you got shooting off the bench just weren't indicative of the rifle's actual accuracy. How many groups from the bench are you comparing to how many groups from prone?

Have you done any other mods to the rifle, i.e. shim the gas system, properly align the oprod guide, bed the action?

I don't have any experience with the Archangel stock so dunno if it's flexy or not but you could reinforce the front of the stock, as is done in the USGI stocks, with a bunch of fibreglass and/or carbon fibre arrow shafts which should get rid of the flexing, if that is the issue.
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2 5-shot groups from the bench (improvised rest), and 2 groups from prone (that were so scattered you couldn't make it which group was which). Mods are in the OP, and the gas system is tight (might benefit from 1 thin shim). Plan to take it up to Tactical Teacher this winter to check the other parts, but visually it looks square, and the wear marks indicate that everything is cycling evenly (bolt lugs even contact, piston striking square)..maybe I got a good one...or shot 2 lucky groups.

Bedding the action and stiffening the stock certainly cant hurt, and will be a likely next step over the winter.
 
Re-enforcing a USGI fibreglass stock is essential no matter what position you're shooting from imo. It's just not that strong.

Two carbon fibre arrow shafts per side properly cut and JB Welded in. Not difficult, adds little weight. Difference in strength is well worth it.

One of my 14's in a fibreglass has an Atlas attached to a short rail. No issues.

Can't comment on the Archangel stock.
 
madashell said:
Re-enforcing a USGI fibreglass stock is essential no matter what position you're shooting from imo. It's just not that strong.

Two carbon fibre arrow shafts per side properly cut and JB Welded in. Not difficult, adds little weight. Difference in strength is well worth it.

One of my 14's in a fibreglass has an Atlas attached to a short rail. No issues.

Can't comment on the Archangel stock.
Click to expand...

Nice setup and great diea.
 
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