Hello i am new here first of all and I am interested in buying a m14 (ive always loved those guns) and i have 2 options the norinco m305 or the springfield m1a. Ive heard people have had some troubles with the m305 before and i want to know if its worth picking up the $600 m305 and fixing it or buy the $1700+ m1a and cry myself to sleep for a week. If the norinco is the better choice what should i look out for on it before i buy it.
M305 or M1A
- Thread starter Driftedpredator
- Start date
Honestly. Look at the receiver. And see what's stamped on it. My friend has one stamped.
Norinco .308
And has troubles with it.
Mine on the other hand is simply stamped:
7.62x51mm NATO
And I have never had a problem.
Than again some the guys will tell you they're all the same and you may get a lemon. If that's the case return it and get another one.
Norinco .308
And has troubles with it.
Mine on the other hand is simply stamped:
7.62x51mm NATO
And I have never had a problem.
Than again some the guys will tell you they're all the same and you may get a lemon. If that's the case return it and get another one.
In my experience a good M305 is just as accurate and reliable as a standard Springfield M1A. A glass bedded national match M1A will be more accurate than both, but that model is more expensive. An M305 can be upgraded to national match standards and I would bet it would be just as accurate if done right.
Just make sure you check barrel indexing on any M305 you buy. Check the alignment of the flash hider. Seen some that are slightly off and hence barrel is not indexed properly. Hope that helps?
Just make sure you check barrel indexing on any M305 you buy. Check the alignment of the flash hider. Seen some that are slightly off and hence barrel is not indexed properly. Hope that helps?
The M305's are a diamond in the rough, and after they are tweeked are reported to be on par if not better than your standard Springfield M1A. But you got to be patient with them and be prepared to spend some time and work on them (not just bolting on parts, although even that can be a challenge sometimes).
If you don't have the time or inclination to work on one, or if you can't get to one of Tactical Teacher's M14 Clinics, then don't bother with the M305. You'll get frustrated and become foul tempered and swear a lot. Although M305's fire and are reliable for the most part (as long as you don't get a lemon, which fortunately seems rare), the fit and finish of the M305 is deplorable (hence the jokes about them being made by a Chinese highschool shop class). M1A's look fantastic in comparison.
BUT you pay through the nose for that standard M1A (about $1800), for a rifle that still needs to be tweeked to shoot well according to the more experienced guys here. This is where the M305, which can be had for $450 to $600, finds it raison d'etre.
Hence the debate about Springfield M1A's and Norinco M305's.
If you want a really nice M14 style rifle, get an M1A National Match (lots of tweeks already done out of the box), or an M1A Super Match. OR get an importer to bring in an LRB for you. They are sweet, but expect to hand over at least $3000-$4000
If you don't have the time or inclination to work on one, or if you can't get to one of Tactical Teacher's M14 Clinics, then don't bother with the M305. You'll get frustrated and become foul tempered and swear a lot. Although M305's fire and are reliable for the most part (as long as you don't get a lemon, which fortunately seems rare), the fit and finish of the M305 is deplorable (hence the jokes about them being made by a Chinese highschool shop class). M1A's look fantastic in comparison.
BUT you pay through the nose for that standard M1A (about $1800), for a rifle that still needs to be tweeked to shoot well according to the more experienced guys here. This is where the M305, which can be had for $450 to $600, finds it raison d'etre.
Hence the debate about Springfield M1A's and Norinco M305's.
If you want a really nice M14 style rifle, get an M1A National Match (lots of tweeks already done out of the box), or an M1A Super Match. OR get an importer to bring in an LRB for you. They are sweet, but expect to hand over at least $3000-$4000
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Im sure you know much more about the m305 than I do. But I have to disagree with staying away from it. I bought the usual stuff from m14.ca (scope mount, muzzle brake and rod and spring.)got a trigger job done only cause mine was slam firing. And it works just fine for what I want it to do. Hitting an 8" steel plate at 200 yards is good enough for me. If your going for sub moa accuracy than yea, your probably right. But for an affordable .308 semi you can't go wrong.
buy the m305 and 1 or 2 other rifles, all in the same calibre for the price of one Springfield. That way if the m305 is out of commissions you will still have the choice of 2 other rifles to shoot. I can't imagine a m305 costing as much as a M1A to repair. I was looking at the M1A loaded version and decided that my $2500 is better spent on a m305, Savage Axis and Browning BAR. My m305 needs some fiddling but the Axis and BAR certainly makes up for the problems and then some!
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
Read this before you decide to spend the $$ on a Springer.....
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1283498-SAI-Re-worked
IF you want an M-305 that doesn't need a bunch of tweaking..... Buy from marstar.
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=85814
If you want a M-305 for a couple of bucks less, buy from anybody else out there, but you have a 50/50 chance of "alignment" issues....
Marstar is the only Importer of Chinese manufactured M-14 Pattern rifles that does a full QC check on rifles before they are shipped form China..... Everyone else seems to take their chances once they hit our shores. I have seen 3 NIB rifles at a local retailer (Admittedly I was doing QC checks for said retailer before they sold them) that had bolts that would drop below the safety bridge under normal operation. I have seem NIB rifles with barrels 6+ degrees over and under indexed. I have had over a dozen rifles from Marstar come across my bench..... Not a single one had a problem!
SAI does not have a warranty centre in Canada. Period. Full stop. This means you basically have no warranty on a SAI rifle (I suppose you could spend $300 to Export it from Canada to the US, and then spend an additional $300+ to Import it back into Canada). If you live in the US, at any point in the lifespan of a SAI rifle, you can send it to Springfield and they will fix anything that may be wrong with it. For the price of the parts or under warranty (as the case may be).
I am currently at 7 M-14 pattern rifles in the lock-up (one is soon going to a new home). One of them is a springer, the rest are norks. The ONLY thing SAI does better than a NIB M-305B from Marstar is the Parkerizing job, and the SAI (in some cases) comes with a Boyds Walnut stock.
My $.02
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1283498-SAI-Re-worked
IF you want an M-305 that doesn't need a bunch of tweaking..... Buy from marstar.
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=85814
If you want a M-305 for a couple of bucks less, buy from anybody else out there, but you have a 50/50 chance of "alignment" issues....
Marstar is the only Importer of Chinese manufactured M-14 Pattern rifles that does a full QC check on rifles before they are shipped form China..... Everyone else seems to take their chances once they hit our shores. I have seen 3 NIB rifles at a local retailer (Admittedly I was doing QC checks for said retailer before they sold them) that had bolts that would drop below the safety bridge under normal operation. I have seem NIB rifles with barrels 6+ degrees over and under indexed. I have had over a dozen rifles from Marstar come across my bench..... Not a single one had a problem!
SAI does not have a warranty centre in Canada. Period. Full stop. This means you basically have no warranty on a SAI rifle (I suppose you could spend $300 to Export it from Canada to the US, and then spend an additional $300+ to Import it back into Canada). If you live in the US, at any point in the lifespan of a SAI rifle, you can send it to Springfield and they will fix anything that may be wrong with it. For the price of the parts or under warranty (as the case may be).
I am currently at 7 M-14 pattern rifles in the lock-up (one is soon going to a new home). One of them is a springer, the rest are norks. The ONLY thing SAI does better than a NIB M-305B from Marstar is the Parkerizing job, and the SAI (in some cases) comes with a Boyds Walnut stock.
My $.02
If you want a M-305 for a couple of bucks less, buy from anybody else out there, but you have a 50/50 chance of "alignment" issues....
Marstar is the only Importer of Chinese manufactured M-14 Pattern rifles that does a full QC check on rifles before they are shipped form China..... Everyone else seems to take their chances once they hit our shores. I have seen 3 NIB rifles at a local retailer (Admittedly I was doing QC checks for said retailer before they sold them) that had bolts that would drop below the safety bridge under normal operation. I have seem NIB rifles with barrels 6+ degrees over and under indexed. I have had over a dozen rifles from Marstar come across my bench..... Not a single one had a problem!
Couldn't i just inspect the rifle first at my local gun store instead of ordering online??
Marstar is the only Importer of Chinese manufactured M-14 Pattern rifles that does a full QC check on rifles before they are shipped form China..... Everyone else seems to take their chances once they hit our shores. I have seen 3 NIB rifles at a local retailer (Admittedly I was doing QC checks for said retailer before they sold them) that had bolts that would drop below the safety bridge under normal operation. I have seem NIB rifles with barrels 6+ degrees over and under indexed. I have had over a dozen rifles from Marstar come across my bench..... Not a single one had a problem!
Couldn't i just inspect the rifle first at my local gun store instead of ordering online??
Oh, I absolutely agree with you, but you have to spend some more time and money and fitting on the base M305. Some people aren't into that and will just hate it for that reason.
Actually, when I bought my first M305, I thought it was a piece of junk and felt I'd been ripped off. Then I did some reading of the stickies, asked some questions on the board, watched a LOT of Youtube videos (thanks Tony Ben!), bought some M14 tools, attended one of Tactical Teacher's clinics (and visited his house a couple times) and now I love this gun and tinkering with it.
I've bought three now. All three tweeked with the usual mods, and one in an M14.ca Blackfeather stock. I still want to unitize the gas cylinders, but I'm told it's not essential so I've held off...for now.
I have sank some money into them in extras though.
NM front sight $35 USD (plus shipping)
NM rear sight $150 from Spcamno
M14.ca Black Arrow spring guide $40
Boyds walnut stock with metal hardware (the springfield buttplates are way nicer) $280
Springfield handguard $20
leather 1907 pattern sling $20
castle nut pliers $15
sadlak gas cylinder lock wrench $25
SEI extended bolt release (can't remember, but Brownells lists it for $57)
spare bolt parts (just in case)
A.R.M.S. #18 scope base about $200 (can't remember exactly)
A.R.M.S. #22 QD scope rings about $150 (can't remember exactly)
Springfield NM flash hider $80
USGI trigger internals (forgot how much)
Tactical Teacher's M14 clinic and a couple sessions at his house (I can't smash off the flash hider at my place)
2 cases of Norinco 7.62 ammo $1000
extra mags $$$
trigger job (by Casey at Tac Ord)
...and that's not even getting into the Blackfeather stock...
EDIT (to put things in perspective): all this extra stuff (not including the Blackfeather stock) plus the M305 for about the same price as a standard, plan Jane Springfield M1A. It pays to tinker a bit with the M305.
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you have no idea where the rifle came from- while marstar is the major importer, Canada ammo and others have them as well- as for the quality , I have a few both usgi and 305s- h&r, a springfield( not the m1a)and a trw- an early Chinese m14( the blued one) and I know these things like the back of my hand- SAVE YOUR MONEY and get a 305 from marstar- unless things are really f*ed up, you'll have a rifle that suits your needs and the money can go on ammo and scope mounts- plus there's a GUARNETEE from marstar- i'd suggest you move on these shortly as just in has designs on these, and he won't make a distinction twixt your 2kplus Springfield and my m305s- HE AIN'T THAT BRIGHT- he's going to evolve into Wendy's puppet-be forewarned that these are a son to #### the first few times you run them- but I am fully confident that these new babis can be run right out of the box
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a lot of the ones in the gun store (not on the shelf), are sealed in plastic and covered in oil.
You can check indexing and function test but you won't be able to check the following if you don't disassemble it:
- loose op rod guide (a simple fix)
- timing of the cylinder lock
- ease of travel of the op rod (tilt test)
you won't know if the rear sight will hold zero under repeated recoil obviously without firing it.
you won't be able to check head spacing without head space gauges, or without sending a few spent casings to Barney (Tactical Teacher) to check.
Don't get me wrong. I love my gun...especially for the price.
I'm just saying: if you don't like fiddling, you may regret your purchase.
Even though that was hard to understand your probably right.... I have both a Springfield nm and a socom 18 they both serve there intended purpose. I have to tweek the norinco it's still in the box but the last one I had and sold worked pretty good out of the box. The mags where tight but it seemed to be accurate enough.
and you may be happier than a pig in s*it- if you look at that list there's a LOT of optional extras and tools that are NOT NECCESSARY- the stock the marstar comes with are good enuff- I wouldn't give you thank you for a wooden stock- I use usgi fiberglas or the black plastic - the wood swells too much in a humid climate-
Absolutely, all that wasn't necessary, just extra stuff for fun.
I just got carried away thinking about and listing all the stuff I've done to mine.
I edited my post with the list: the extras (not including the Blackfeather stock) plus the M305 were had for about the cost of a standard, plan Jane M1A
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$639 plus tax and shipping. And that's just the base stock. You then need to purchase your pistol grip and butt of your choice!
But it's SO worth it!
I've since changed out the Mission First Tactical butt for a Magpul UBR and the A2 pistol grip for a Magpul MIAD
I own both.
Hands down the M1A has better machining, but it's not anymore accurate or reliable.
The 305 is a damn money pit. I EASILY have the same or more into the 305 as I do the Springfield. Actually, I ended up modding the M1A as well so BOTH of them cost way too much.
My advice after all this ...
Go with an AR10 instead, like the DPMS Recon G2. (unless you specifically want non-restricted).
Hands down the M1A has better machining, but it's not anymore accurate or reliable.
The 305 is a damn money pit. I EASILY have the same or more into the 305 as I do the Springfield. Actually, I ended up modding the M1A as well so BOTH of them cost way too much.
My advice after all this ...
Go with an AR10 instead, like the DPMS Recon G2. (unless you specifically want non-restricted).
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
Sure ya could.
But it takes me 30 min to do a full tear down inspection of a M-14 on the bench.....
I still remember my first M-14.... It took me 3 or 4 hours reading the stickies with the rifle in my lap, just to go through the inspections stickie!
