m305 or not?

Double trouble today , shot my 2007 and 2009 long M305's for the first time at 10 inch and 5 inch steel plates @ 100 yards .

100% function with surplus ammo , 100% pure Fun !!


Thanks to a fellow CGN member !!!!!

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:sniper:.........................................................................................................................................................................................G:
 
Rocket Surgery said:
It really comes down to how much you believe the internet drama people. Name one lawsuit, or consumer protection group that has singled in on the m305 rifle and you will see that these wouldn't be sold if they were unsafe.

Sure some folks will paint a mystical aura around how they know something unsafe about them, but they're blowing defects out of proportion and labeling them safety issues. These people kind of hump the line between hearing themselves talk and attacking a product so they can talk about how much cooler their guns are. It's trolling, without the finesse needed to troll properly, while getting trolled by the people who play long enough just to keep them talking.

I'm probably the dumbest person on this forum, and I have owned an m305 for 6 years, but I wouldn't recommend one to someone on a budget because the ammo is expensive. The SKS and surplus ammo is just as fun and way cheaper, durable as well.
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There tends to be a lot less private lawsuits in Canada in general. Good luck suing the manufacturer (where most US firearms lawsuits are focused). If you think front sights out of alignment, lousy stocks, poor rear sight quality, excessive chamber head space dimensions among other issues is what is feeding your trolls I'd say you were not paying attention. Those that are vocal tend to point at broken bolts and barrels flying down range as cause for concern. Now I don't know about you but I'd say those failures are a big deal and pretty uncommon for all makes and models of firearms.
 
It s a fun 308 semi auto. Best fun to price. And yes it may need some work done but i consider it a part of the m305 experience
 
Now you guys are scaring me, since I have a 2012 and have no idea why it's worse than a 2007....

I've not shot it much, yet, as I'm waiting on a bullet sizer so I can start developing a cast bullet load, so a few hundred rounds down range. The "gold standard" load with h4895 and Sierra match kings nets me 4 or 5 inches at 100 yards with the stock sights. Honestly part of that is me.

I inspected this rifle in store myself. Indexing isn't off by much, no idea about head space, but the brass looks ok. I did have to peen and locktite the oprod guide and lazy-shimmed the gas system by splitting the shims -it needed 2 or 3. I also just replaced the recoil spring, mostly because i was ordering stuff from Wolf and figured why not? I suspect the rear sight is mostly ok.

Only real function issue I'm having is the gas cylinder nut coming loose on a continual basis. I wrench it every 20 rounds or so. I'm thinking Teflon tape might help bung it up some.

Fun gun. Eats ammo, so if I can't discover a good cast bullet recipe I won't shoot it much.

As for coming price increases, wasn't that on Sun News a while back that import tariffs on some goods from china, guns in particular, are going way up?
 
I just finished bore sighting my new scope on my 2012 M305 , I see no real differences between it and the 2007 and the 2009 I have . The was a little more gas system tightening up required on the 2012 but apart from that nothing really to report . The caliper measurements were all in speck on all three .

ammo is well priced @ 399.00 per 1000 and someone had a one day sale ) I missed ) @ 329.99 shipped ( if I read the add correctly ,, hard to reload that cheap when factoring all the components and time involves .

I have never made cast bullets so it seems by your post it has a big cost savings ??
 
We've always cast our own, so by now the tools are well paid for and all it costs me is time and $1/pound for scrap lead if I can't find it anywhere else. The time is the big cost, of course. Still, I've seen commercial cast rifle bullets going for about $80 per 500 if I recall, which is still less than half the cost of jacketed.

Another advantage is your brass lasts longer, since its a milder load, and you're also burning less powder. Cast boolits has a running thread on cast loads for the m305/m1a

For me if I can find good paper accuracy at 100 metres I'm happy. I just can't see a target with irons much past that, unless is a big honkin gong. That front sight blade covers the black at 100 as it is!
 
luke s said:
do you worry about leading up the gas system? or are they low enough velocity to not cause excessive leading?
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I've not shot enough cast to notice one way or the other, but apparently lead buildup isn't really a concern. The gun isn't meant to eat full house .308 loads in the first place, and my goal is to load as mild as will group well and function properly. It's just a range toy for me: my poor man's Garand. ;)
 
Rocket Surgery said:
It really comes down to how much you believe the internet drama people. Name one lawsuit, or consumer protection group that has singled in on the m305 rifle and you will see that these wouldn't be sold if they were unsafe.

Sure some folks will paint a mystical aura around how they know something unsafe about them, but they're blowing defects out of proportion and labeling them safety issues. These people kind of hump the line between hearing themselves talk and attacking a product so they can talk about how much cooler their guns are. It's trolling, without the finesse needed to troll properly, while getting trolled by the people who play long enough just to keep them talking.

I'm probably the dumbest person on this forum, and I have owned an m305 for 6 years, but I wouldn't recommend one to someone on a budget because the ammo is expensive. The SKS and surplus ammo is just as fun and way cheaper, durable as well.
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No mysticism needed- some blow up on their own. ;) They are Ok, you get about $400 of semi auto for your $400 and in that respect they're fair value. Later / post 2007 (seems the agreed cutoff) is by far the sketchiest for quality and consistency, most are probably just fine if you accept headspace approaching and very often past limits, barrels out of index (easily rectified with proper tools), garbage sights, junk stocks, general crude roughness and sharp edges.

99% will also never blow up to pick a number. A blow up is a very serious thing however, and it's up to the buyer to decide if the saved money is worth the risk. They have a failure rate exponentially higher than any other gun discussed on this entire forum, of any type from pistols to rifles to shotguns, that's undeniable and here for us all to read. It has also just popped up in the last couple years, previous Norcs blow ups were rare.

The top one is my photo, still trying to figure out what happened there, the other two gleaned off this forum in the last few months. There have been several more barrel failures than that which prompted the proof testing by one of the major retailers of them, and several more bolt failures not photographed.

So, both sides are true; they can be good guns, and they also can have major problems. I no longer roll the Norc dice, you get to choose your path.

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If you really believe you have the same odds of a blow up if you buy a Springfield, LRB, or Smith as a Norc well good for you. It would also suggest it's a flawed design and nobody can build them. Google will show you anything you desire, including a 21 leaf clover and blown up Winchesters, Remingtons, Tikkas, Sakos, Colts, HKs, Springfields, and Norcs.

Providing googled accounts and photos, something I too have found myself doing with other arguments at times, doesn't truthfully mean much. A string of incidents in our one little Canadian forum, again more so than any other gun discussed in any forum here, suggests there's something a guy asking a question about the product might want to know. I have a blown up Norc in my own hands to look at, you'll have a hard time convincing me even with endless google results something isn't amiss with it.
 
Its not Google my friend. I actually spend time at the other M14 specific forums and read what's posted.

You've been around this platform long enough to know all sorts of things can cause bolt failure.

I suggest instead of always telling everybody your going to get the failed bolts tested you actually do get them tested.

Let's find out what happened and see what specific batch/year this all relates to.

I also think the retailers should get involved since they are the ones who would hear about most of the problems.


And there is another point there have been parts that failed but there actually have been no major kabooms.
 
I agree that research is needed to try to identify problematic productions runs of any fire arm that suffers catastrophic failures and endangers the shooter and others .

In over 40 years as a RO / RSO / Instructor , I have seen Brand Name , revolvers , semi auto pistols , ( some top of the line models ) some Brand new from the box blow up .

The question is always ,, is this bad / poor quality firearm , improper ammo ( load / bullet weight ) , Human error in hand loading , re double charge , over crimp , bad brass ect ..
we need to Know WHY the failure occurred , there is always a reason.

Rifles Blow Up , Shot Guns blow up , there is always a reason and YES some More often than others , that I agree .

There is another Rifle that will fire on it's own and has killed Many People and it is a Top Brand Name Manufacturer , Bad trigger design or so people say that are in the " Know " claim .

Not all M305's fail , people say that it occurs More often than other M14 designs / manufacturers , that's all well and good , I admit I am new to the M305 and have much to learn ,'

However the rifle is a machine designed to cycle and contain High Pressures , launch a projectile , cycle and do it all over again , we should be able to figure this one out together.

So as I now own 3 ( 2007 , 2009 both , Low round count and a NIB 2012 all long barrels ) I have started taking measurements of all three , bolt , receiver ect and recording round counts one each . I will keep track of each and record the measurement and report changes if any are found as my shooting with them continues . Perhaps I will find something that is a warning sign in one of the models I own , I will report these findings on CGN to try to assist fellow CGN to be informed and be Safe.

If I get a failed Part ei Bolt ect , I will have it tested , because I want to Know and Understand WHY it Failed and all of us should do the same , Knowledge is power .

I agree Retailers SHOULD be also on the Front Line with us shooters to insure we get a SAFE product for everyone to enjoy .

I have NO Wish to start a running argument with You or any one else on this matter , as Important as it is , we should work Together and try to do what we can to identify the issues and find a way to have them resolved . CGN membership grows by the day , I am sure together we can effect change to the betterment of all shooters.


We are all shooters , a minority in Canada , lets not argue with each other but work together for the Betterment of all of us .

Yomomma you have more hands on experience and knowledge with the M305 than most of us and your are an important part in finding the answers we all need to have .

Stay well my friend
 
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