M305 Owners - Could you please share your experiences with slam firing and doubling?

Hey CanuckR, I read your thread when you first posted it. It was very sobering. I remember I had done that exact thing prior to reading your thread but mine didn't blow up. I knew it was a bad idea at the time but I didn't know how bad. I got lucky I guess. But I will never try my luck at that again. :)
 
Here's what I know about slam fires...
1) Never had one, never seen one
2) some guys have posted that it happened to a guy they know so many times that it now seems common place.

Hey did you hear, some lady went to a sun tanning salon so many times in one day that she started to stink. She then went to the doctor who said that she microwaved her insides and there was nothing that could be done. Hey it happened to a friend of a friend.

It's called an Urban Legend folks.
 
Here's what I know about slam fires...
1) Never had one, never seen one
2) some guys have posted that it happened to a guy they know so many times that it now seems common place.

Hey did you hear, some lady went to a sun tanning salon so many times in one day that she started to stink. She then went to the doctor who said that she microwaved her insides and there was nothing that could be done. Hey it happened to a friend of a friend.

It's called an Urban Legend folks.

Uh...no.

Sorry, but while I've not personally seen a failure in a Norc '14, I have seen similar failures occur even in the most revered firearms. Browning C5 M1919, in a Grizzly turret (I think) AVGP, and I'm not exactly certain what the cause was, but a live round detonated out of battery, blew the feed cover off, and a small piece of brass from the casing cut the gunner on the forehead between the eyebrows. The gunner had to be cleaned up and patched, and the MG was inspected, start of an investigation, and was removed from service pending the finish of the investigation. So if it can happen to the most reliable MG of all time, with quality Canadian military issue ammo (and I'm not being sarcastic here, Canadian issue ammo is among the very highest quality that any army gets), then it can happen to anyone.

Slam fires and doubling have happened a fair bit for SKS shooters too, and that rifle is perhaps the most reliable among all rifles...the cause not being the design, or even operator error, but rather a maintenance failure. Go to the Red Rifles forum and look it up. It's no urban legend.
 
I'm sure that on very rare occasions slam fires have happened, but the stories get repeated and retold (as an example your post) to the point that the uneducated reader would conclude these things are a daily occurrence with almost any rifle and that is just not the case. These are very rare and isolated occurrences that are difficult to replicate even if you tried.
 
Never had a slam fire or doubling incident. My norc feeds, fires and extracts like a charm, and I've used a reasonable variety of factory and surplus ammo as well.
 
An in-spec M14 should NEVER double. Never. The sear and hammer arrangement is designed to bypass the trigger hooks with the hammer and grab the sear before the bolt travels far enough rearward to strip a second cartridge. In other words, if you get a double, you trigger group isn't working properly. Chances are that this sort of timing issue would relate to a stock that is too tall from the trigger group inletting to the receiver shelf - you should be able to correct it.

Slam-fire is another thing. ANY free-floating firing pin can slam-fire under the wrong conditions. Usually this relates to debris in the pin channel (for example primer cup fragments) causing the pin to not properly retract. In an M14, this debris jam would have to occur the moment the bolt rolls into lockup and the pin has cleared the safety bridge. Not a common occurrence, and in fact it would be very very rare IMHO. Even GI guns would be as susceptible, but as I mentioned, it's not something likely to happen.

SF can also happen if you use too-soft primers and you get a one in 1000 event where the pin gets enough forward momentum that the small dimple that M14 floating pins leave on primer cups is enough to touch one off, but this type of SF usually happens in battery, since the pin cannot physically go forward enough to hit the primer until it passes the safety bridge and locks up in battery. This, of course, assumes an in-spec safety bridge. It would manifest as a round going off and cycling the action when you let go of the charging handle. I've only ever heard of this happening when single-loading without a magazine in the gun. Generally a bad idea with the M14.
 
Slam fires and doubling have happened a fair bit for SKS shooters too, and that rifle is perhaps the most reliable among all rifles...the cause not being the design, or even operator error, but rather a maintenance failure. Go to the Red Rifles forum and look it up. It's no urban legend.

Nearly ALL SKS Slam Fires can be traced to one of two causes:

1) The firing pin is typically difficult to remove on the SKS, requiring a decent punch (preferably made of brass), a hammer and a block with a hole in it of the proper size to clear the pin retainer. Not many people pull the pin on a new SKS and resort to brake cleaner in the pin channel, if any attempt to clean it is made at all. The cosmolene in there is often hardened to lacquer and if left there, SF becomes FAR FAR more likely. REMOVE AND CLEAN THOSE SKS PINS FOLKS!!! In my view, dealers should ship every SKS with a big red warning notice in the box to this effect.

2) Oiling or greasing of firing pins. Guess what folks, this is the only moving part on any semi-auto free-floating pin gun that should be left DRY. If you oil it, carbon soot will mix with that oil and over time will jam the pin and lead to a SF. This is true of the M1 and M14 as well. DO NOT oil the firing pins. Only exception I can think of is the AR15, you need a very light coat of oil on the pin because they sh!t where they eat, as it were.
 
My DA Socom 18 doubled on me today. I attribute it to not holding the rifle firmly enough to my shoulder combined with improper trigger follow through. Mine has a very light trigger and I was ever so gently squeezing it off a fence rail from prone. Essentially accidental bump-fire.
 
Well, thought I'd come here with my M305 problem- I probably have around 2000 rounds through my 2012 M305, bought new in March 2013, and it started doubling over the summer. I've cleaned out the firing pin channel thoroughly and checked to make sure the trigger is assembled correctly. I use handloaded ammo with Winchester Large Rifle primers, but it doubles with commercial ammo as well. Any idea what could be going on?
 
M14 double fire

The M-14 and Garand designs are susceptible to a double fire.

It occurs as a bump fire due to recoil and insufficient pressure to the rear on the trigger, usually a result of a slow pull and light touch for accuracy bench shooting.
The rifles simply bump fire, and honed light pull weight M-14 triggers do it more readily if the shooter doesn't pull all the way to the rear before recoil causes the bump.
 
This might be it- I have a light touch on the trigger because I don't want my trigger pull to affect accuracy. When I'm tired/don't care as much and I'm pulling heavily, come to think of it, it doesn't slamfire at all of almost never.


The M-14 and Garand designs are susceptible to a double fire.

It occurs as a bump fire due to recoil and insufficient pressure to the rear on the trigger, usually a result of a slow pull and light touch for accuracy bench shooting.
The rifles simply bump fire, and honed light pull weight M-14 triggers do it more readily if the shooter doesn't pull all the way to the rear before recoil causes the bump.
 
At about 1000 rounds my M1A started doubling on occasion, usually once or twice per range trip. The first time I was pretty sure it was my gun handling technique was getting sloppy. Second time on the same range trip I packed up and took it home to check out. nothing obvious wrong so I sprayed the trigger group with a degreaser and greased/oiled it back up. Next range trip it doubled again after about 20 rounds.
This is the loaded model and had a pretty nice trigger that had seemed to get a bit lighter over time. I now suspected exreme wear of the hammer and sear but they seemed fine with no noticable wear to the engagement surfaces so I did the emery cloth trick to the back of the trigger assm. to increase the engagement of the hammer hooks on the trigger and problem solved for the last 100 rounds or so.
I decided to take the trigger assm. apart today as I was going to replace the hammer and trigger assm. with the USGI set I have and found the trigger pivot pin is worn to the point I can feel the grooves in it with my finger nail.
My Norinco has a very heavy trigger but is at over 2000 rounds now with no issues.
 
Thinking I might take a look at the trigger assembly when I go home tonight, maybe post a picture here.

At about 1000 rounds my M1A started doubling on occasion, usually once or twice per range trip. The first time I was pretty sure it was my gun handling technique was getting sloppy. Second time on the same range trip I packed up and took it home to check out. nothing obvious wrong so I sprayed the trigger group with a degreaser and greased/oiled it back up. Next range trip it doubled again after about 20 rounds.
This is the loaded model and had a pretty nice trigger that had seemed to get a bit lighter over time. I now suspected exreme wear of the hammer and sear but they seemed fine with no noticable wear to the engagement surfaces so I did the emery cloth trick to the back of the trigger assm. to increase the engagement of the hammer hooks on the trigger and problem solved for the last 100 rounds or so.
I decided to take the trigger assm. apart today as I was going to replace the hammer and trigger assm. with the USGI set I have and found the trigger pivot pin is worn to the point I can feel the grooves in it with my finger nail.
My Norinco has a very heavy trigger but is at over 2000 rounds now with no issues.
 
Mine doubled after a poor glass bedding job that prevented the sear from properly reengaging the hammer after every shot. It passed the follow through test, but the sear wasn't fully grasping the hammer. When fired, the recoil was just enough to drop the hammer again.

Needless to day, it was a flaw with the bedding job, not the rifle. I fixed the issue immediately.
 
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