M305 welding gas system

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I searched a little, it seems there is not a lot of tutorials on welding the gas system on the M305.

I tig weld, can braze too with silicon bronze. Wich one should I use? I guess if the gas tube and band are not the same material im better off brazing?

I have seen pics of long welds, I think I would only do small tacks distortion is a #####...

Any good info on that?
 
There is a very specific way to tIG these so that the bore of the gas cylinder is not warped and s that the band applies upward pressure evenly on the bottom of the stock ferrule.

It would be a good idea to look at pictures of USMC welded units to get a good idea of how to do it.
 
As Claven2 mentioned they require a specific method ........I copied a lot of info from members on CGN and M-14doc / 45ACPKING in particular ;)

From 45ACPKING
Gas System Unitizing.
A really FAST way of tightening up your groups.
We have to unitize this to prevent more rattling around of the barrel components. 2 methods are advocated in the US: USARMY drills and taps 2 screws (can't recall if they are # 8 or # 6) from the rear of the (annealed) front band into the rear of the STAINLESS STEEL gas cylinder, around the permanently immobilized spindle valve.
The second way is the USMC method which involves TIG (not oxy-acetylene) welding the front band to the STAINLESS STEEL gas cylinder body.
NOTE: Norinco Gas Cylinders are NOT Stainless steel but Chro-moly.
Oh yeah, clamp the 2 pieces together.... I emphasize that the gas cylinder is stainless material so that the experienced welders lurking in the group will get a "heads up" on the TIG. I've been advising my welder buddies to locate the relief hole "tab" and "tack" (just a little bit) on the front band. This is the vital operation.... Now the remaining tacks can be ABOVE the gas cylinder body, up in the surrounding barrel band at 1000 hrs and 1400 hrs.
Now take a round file and dress/clean off the alignment of the interior of the front band, hopefully the "C" clamp holding the front band and gas cylinder did not shift on you while welding.
I forgot to mention to anneal the front band (before welding) and bend up the steel "tabs" for the handguard..... Fat barrel soon to be located there. I use a pair of pliers for this one. Don't scratch the front band and if you do, file off the scars and touch up with Birchwood Casey's cold blue.

Bb1SJKk.jpg



Assemble your rifle tightly with everything centered and as you want it once it is welded. Using a prick or center punch, make mate marks. Try to make the marks in the areas where the welds will go (10:00, 2:00 and 6:00). That way, they will be welded over and you won't have divots in your newly unitized gas system.

Disassemble the rifle. With a wire wheel, buffing wheel or sand paper, clean the areas around where the welds will go. Do a final wipe of the area with acetone on a rag. Clean, shiny metal is what you want to see. Any oxidization or oils will make your welds weak.
Mount the barrel (with or without receiver) pointing upwards in a vice. Ground the vice or bench, if it is metal. Install the barrel band and gas cylinder, lining up your mate marks. Clamp the two parts together with the gas cylinder lock.



Because the steel is a chrome-molybdenum alloy, it's a good idea to preheat (it's always a good idea to preheat) with a torch. Preheating burns-off oils in the metal, promotes penetration (a weld sitting on the surface may as well be caulk or bubblegum) and it reduces the likelihood of crystallizing the metal around the welds (which is where weldments usually fail). You don't want to melt everything together, you just want it warm. It shouldn't glow and the clean metal shouldn't change color.

Get some filler rod. Smaller diameters are easier to control and need less heat (smaller puddles). Big filler rods need more heat to melt and leave larger deposits. That means more heat on your barrel and gas system - not good. I used a 1/16" dia. ER70S-2 rod. It is specifically for joining chro-moly steels. If you don't have any of that handy you can use stainless filler rod. If you really have to, you can chip the flux off of an E309 stainless SMAW rod and use it.

Starting at 6:00, tack the joints in all three spots. Let it cool and see that it is straight. If everything is level, make three 1/16"x3/16"lg spot welds. Work quickly and make good welds, being careful not to put too much heat into the barrel and assembly.

When all three spot welds are finished, post heat with a torch, so that there is even heat in the assembly. This prevents warping from uneven cooling. Take some old welding mitts, aprons or any other rawhide and wrap the assembly around the weldment, this keeps it from cooling too quickly and warping and forming micro-cracks. Leave the barrel pointing upward as close to vertical as possible. Remember, the barrel took some heat and needs to cool too. By being vertical, the cooling will be even along the longitudinal axis of the barrel.
 
I got my Mat Tech buddy to hit with 3 little spot welds. Just clamped it together with a C clamp, roughed up the 3 spot weld spots (at the 10, 2 and 6 o clock position if you're staring down the muzzle) and it was all over in 15 seconds.

I will say I literally did every tune/accurize trick on my Norc M14. NOTHING improved the accuracy in any drastic way until I properly bedded the action.
All these little tricks most users do may/may not make any tangible difference.
I did every one of them first on my rifle. I didn't notice any huge difference in accuracy. To say essentially it was so small I wasn't sure if it was attributable to any of the accurizing mods I performed on the rifle.
Then decided to go all out and bed the action properly myself with marine tex. I saw an almost 50% reduction in group sizes after this.
It's not for the faint of heart though. Be forewarned.
 
As Claven2 mentioned they require a specific method ........I copied a lot of info from members on CGN and M-14doc / 45ACPKING in particular ;)

From 45ACPKING
Gas System Unitizing.
A really FAST way of tightening up your groups.
We have to unitize this to prevent more rattling around of the barrel components. 2 methods are advocated in the US: USARMY drills and taps 2 screws (can't recall if they are # 8 or # 6) from the rear of the (annealed) front band into the rear of the STAINLESS STEEL gas cylinder, around the permanently immobilized spindle valve.
The second way is the USMC method which involves TIG (not oxy-acetylene) welding the front band to the STAINLESS STEEL gas cylinder body.
NOTE: Norinco Gas Cylinders are NOT Stainless steel but Chro-moly.
Oh yeah, clamp the 2 pieces together.... I emphasize that the gas cylinder is stainless material so that the experienced welders lurking in the group will get a "heads up" on the TIG. I've been advising my welder buddies to locate the relief hole "tab" and "tack" (just a little bit) on the front band. This is the vital operation.... Now the remaining tacks can be ABOVE the gas cylinder body, up in the surrounding barrel band at 1000 hrs and 1400 hrs.
Now take a round file and dress/clean off the alignment of the interior of the front band, hopefully the "C" clamp holding the front band and gas cylinder did not shift on you while welding.
I forgot to mention to anneal the front band (before welding) and bend up the steel "tabs" for the handguard..... Fat barrel soon to be located there. I use a pair of pliers for this one. Don't scratch the front band and if you do, file off the scars and touch up with Birchwood Casey's cold blue.

Bb1SJKk.jpg



Assemble your rifle tightly with everything centered and as you want it once it is welded. Using a prick or center punch, make mate marks. Try to make the marks in the areas where the welds will go (10:00, 2:00 and 6:00). That way, they will be welded over and you won't have divots in your newly unitized gas system.

Disassemble the rifle. With a wire wheel, buffing wheel or sand paper, clean the areas around where the welds will go. Do a final wipe of the area with acetone on a rag. Clean, shiny metal is what you want to see. Any oxidization or oils will make your welds weak.
Mount the barrel (with or without receiver) pointing upwards in a vice. Ground the vice or bench, if it is metal. Install the barrel band and gas cylinder, lining up your mate marks. Clamp the two parts together with the gas cylinder lock.



Because the steel is a chrome-molybdenum alloy, it's a good idea to preheat (it's always a good idea to preheat) with a torch. Preheating burns-off oils in the metal, promotes penetration (a weld sitting on the surface may as well be caulk or bubblegum) and it reduces the likelihood of crystallizing the metal around the welds (which is where weldments usually fail). You don't want to melt everything together, you just want it warm. It shouldn't glow and the clean metal shouldn't change color.

Get some filler rod. Smaller diameters are easier to control and need less heat (smaller puddles). Big filler rods need more heat to melt and leave larger deposits. That means more heat on your barrel and gas system - not good. I used a 1/16" dia. ER70S-2 rod. It is specifically for joining chro-moly steels. If you don't have any of that handy you can use stainless filler rod. If you really have to, you can chip the flux off of an E309 stainless SMAW rod and use it.

Starting at 6:00, tack the joints in all three spots. Let it cool and see that it is straight. If everything is level, make three 1/16"x3/16"lg spot welds. Work quickly and make good welds, being careful not to put too much heat into the barrel and assembly.

When all three spot welds are finished, post heat with a torch, so that there is even heat in the assembly. This prevents warping from uneven cooling. Take some old welding mitts, aprons or any other rawhide and wrap the assembly around the weldment, this keeps it from cooling too quickly and warping and forming micro-cracks. Leave the barrel pointing upward as close to vertical as possible. Remember, the barrel took some heat and needs to cool too. By being vertical, the cooling will be even along the longitudinal axis of the barrel.

Good info thanks
 
I got my Mat Tech buddy to hit with 3 little spot welds. Just clamped it together with a C clamp, roughed up the 3 spot weld spots (at the 10, 2 and 6 o clock position if you're staring down the muzzle) and it was all over in 15 seconds.

I will say I literally did every tune/accurize trick on my Norc M14. NOTHING improved the accuracy in any drastic way until I properly bedded the action.
All these little tricks most users do may/may not make any tangible difference.
I did every one of them first on my rifle. I didn't notice any huge difference in accuracy. To say essentially it was so small I wasn't sure if it was attributable to any of the accurizing mods I performed on the rifle.
Then decided to go all out and bed the action properly myself with marine tex. I saw an almost 50% reduction in group sizes after this.
It's not for the faint of heart though. Be forewarned.

Im doing it because I can basically...

Bedding the action is part of the plans as well.
 
Im doing it because I can basically...

Bedding the action is part of the plans as well.

You should.
I realized afterwards that all the tweaks people do are just the preparation steps.
You only multiply their potential once you properly bed the action. Then you will see some incredible results.
I was able to hit a 4 foot steel plate at 600 meters with mine using 7.62mm surplus bulk ammo using NM iron sights shooting prone off a sh**ty old jobmate range bag.
All Norc rifle tuned at home and bedded in a USGI walnut stock.
It's a lot of prep work but the single most return for effort you will get on the platform.
 
I was told that the gas block on an M305 was chromoly if that helps choose a filler metal. I believe they are stainless on an M1A
 
I was told that the gas block on an M305 was chromoly if that helps choose a filler metal. I believe they are stainless on an M1A

Mild steel filler rod is fine on Chromoly (4130, 4140 etc); mild steel is the norm for welding 4130 aircraft structures and bikes and motorcycle frames; welds should be stress relieved by heating and slow cooling after welding.
 
I got it done tonight

vgonetv

8CNZJcc


I ended up choosing to braze it with silicon bronze since what I read seemed to indicate distortion control is more important than actual weld strenght. Still I think the barrel band will bend before these tacks break
 
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