M305B First impressions from a long time Garand owner

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Snitzler

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My first post!

July/2011 UPS delivered a butcher paper wrapped plastic case from Marstar. Opened the Marstar embossed case and found out that it comes apart at the hinge line. Every time I open the case it splits at the hinge line and you have to play with the hinge line to get the case closed. I am going to get a better case.

The gun was dripping with a foul smelling oil that doesn’t feel nice to the skin. Gloves on, and it definitely is not cosmolene. The gun was wrapped in a leaky plastic bag with small pools of oil in the corners. There were 2 cloth “bags” that were soaked in the oil and attached to the barrel and trigger. Lots of oil soaked into the foam lining of the case.

Norinco M305 semi-auto .308 win
S/n ###X-XX-XX CN 10 CA

It came with a green cotton sling, cleaning kit, chamber brush, oil bottle (more oil!) and the combo tool. The sling is good enough for fooling around. The combo tool is trash. Ebay supplied a nos USGI combo tool for $10.00 including shipping. The difference in quality between the combo tools is amazing. As well there is a 5/5 round short mag and a 5/20 round long mag.

Trying out the action a few times showed that it is hard and rough. It required a lot of force and didn’t feel smooth. Will have to see how it loosens up. I got out the lint free rags and wiped everything down, did a field strip and kept wiping. The synthetic stock is not bad but I was surprised at how heavy it is. The butt plate looks ok but the top screw was buggered and hard to unscrew. I don’t think it was threaded properly or they used the screw to thread it, which would account for the messed up head. When I opened the door in the butt plate, the catch spring went flying, the pot metal door broke. The door failed right where the roll pin was. I could go to Marstar but what’s the point? I think I will just get a USGI butt plate.

The trigger mech looked ok and it was cleaned with brake cleaner and oiled and greased. Feels a lot better and is very similar to the Garand so complete disassembly and rebuild was easy. The trigger housing showed a lot of machining marks but the hammer, etc. look good.

The op rod and spring came off easily and the bolt just rolled out, again I think owning a Garand helps. Had to stop to clean off more of that oil. The bolt needed a good wipe down and an air blast to remove excess. The firing pin was free and I took the opportunity to grease the roller assy. I used one of those bolt roller greasers from Badger, works great. The rest of the bolt was greased like it should be greased. I will pull the bolt apart after I get some ammo through the gun. Op rod looks like an op rod, greased it up and I reassembled the rifle.

The gas system came apart easily and oil was everywhere. The gas piston has an elongated hole which I am going to go after Marstar for a replacement. Clean and dry and back together.

Surface finish of the gun is a little rough and the parkerizing or whatever they use seems to come off easily. I put it in the case and next day found the gun all oiled up again. The foam was soaked with oil. Went to a local car wash and got that fixed up. PS It takes a long time for foam to dry out.

Next step is the range to break in the barrel and see how this thing makes noise.
 
Snitzler said:
My first post!

July/2011 UPS delivered a butcher paper wrapped plastic case from Marstar. Opened the Marstar embossed case and found out that it comes apart at the hinge line. Every time I open the case it splits at the hinge line and you have to play with the hinge line to get the case closed. I am going to get a better case.

The gun was dripping with a foul smelling oil that doesn’t feel nice to the skin. Gloves on, and it definitely is not cosmolene. The gun was wrapped in a leaky plastic bag with small pools of oil in the corners. There were 2 cloth “bags” that were soaked in the oil and attached to the barrel and trigger. Lots of oil soaked into the foam lining of the case.

Norinco M305 semi-auto .308 win
S/n ###X-XX-XX CN 10 CA

It came with a green cotton sling, cleaning kit, chamber brush, oil bottle (more oil!) and the combo tool. The sling is good enough for fooling around. The combo tool is trash. Ebay supplied a nos USGI combo tool for $10.00 including shipping. The difference in quality between the combo tools is amazing. As well there is a 5/5 round short mag and a 5/20 round long mag.

Trying out the action a few times showed that it is hard and rough. It required a lot of force and didn’t feel smooth. Will have to see how it loosens up. I got out the lint free rags and wiped everything down, did a field strip and kept wiping. The synthetic stock is not bad but I was surprised at how heavy it is. The butt plate looks ok but the top screw was buggered and hard to unscrew. I don’t think it was threaded properly or they used the screw to thread it, which would account for the messed up head. When I opened the door in the butt plate, the catch spring went flying, the pot metal door broke. The door failed right where the roll pin was. I could go to Marstar but what’s the point? I think I will just get a USGI butt plate.

The trigger mech looked ok and it was cleaned with brake cleaner and oiled and greased. Feels a lot better and is very similar to the Garand so complete disassembly and rebuild was easy. The trigger housing showed a lot of machining marks but the hammer, etc. look good.

The op rod and spring came off easily and the bolt just rolled out, again I think owning a Garand helps. Had to stop to clean off more of that oil. The bolt needed a good wipe down and an air blast to remove excess. The firing pin was free and I took the opportunity to grease the roller assy. I used one of those bolt roller greasers from Badger, works great. The rest of the bolt was greased like it should be greased. I will pull the bolt apart after I get some ammo through the gun. Op rod looks like an op rod, greased it up and I reassembled the rifle.

The gas system came apart easily and oil was everywhere. The gas piston has an elongated hole which I am going to go after Marstar for a replacement. Clean and dry and back together.

Surface finish of the gun is a little rough and the parkerizing or whatever they use seems to come off easily. I put it in the case and next day found the gun all oiled up again. The foam was soaked with oil. Went to a local car wash and got that fixed up. PS It takes a long time for foam to dry out.

Next step is the range to break in the barrel and see how this thing makes noise.
Click to expand...
Cosmetically the norcs and polytechs are rough, but they shoot great owned one of each and stock out of the box i was hitting 8" gongs at 300yards with surplus ammo, wimchester white box, american eagle and various other cheap ammo. It digested everything i put in it. I never attempted shooting a group on paper but i love hearing that smack when the 150gr pills hit it.
 
I got my M305S from Frontier about 3years ago, and it was the most oil caked rifle I have ever owned . Since then, I have replaced the Chu wood with a synthetic stock (custom camo paint job), installed a Leopould Rifleman scope (B square mount), and had the M14Doctor trigger job. She is very accurate,and is going to be my new deer hunting rifle this year!
 
I purchase an M305 a few months ago. The action smoothed out nicely after firing about 200rds or so. The parkerized magazines work great with no problems. I picked up 3 blued magazines, not sure if they need to be broken in, but numerous FAILURE TO FEED atleast twice each mag to fire five rnds. I think the blued mags were Promag manufacture.

I fire PRVI .308 FMJBT 145gr with no problems. Decent accuracy from bipod.

I picked up a scope mount and Bushnell 4200 Elite. Had some issues dialling in, but the problem was a scope ring that was not seated properly in the mount which limited my scoped elevation adjustment. Problem solved, works great. Next time mount myself and not have a shop do it.
 
You won't get the same fit & finish as the M1's but you will have a decent rifle to shoot. Get past the cosmetics and shoot it. I am certain you will like it if you give it a fair chance, seeing as the platform is somewhat similar to what you are already used to with the garand.

Regards,
 
Think of the first 200 rds as break-in abrasive compound. Oil and lube, shoot and clean. Don't expect good functioning until it has been shot in.
 
I bought my Norinco from SFRC. I was looking at the one at Marstar but didn't feel like waiting. I went to the range and put 200 rounds through it just to loosen it up a bit. I had 2 misfires which I think are due to the hammer spring being weak but not too sure yet. I am heading out tomorrow again so we'll see. I used 145gr Winchester rounds, not re-loaded.

Anyhow, the rifle came in a cardboard box with all the accessories and two mags. So far I am super happy with it but will keep upgrading it till I'm broke, haha
 
misfires due the hammer spring being weak on a new rifle are so far down on my list of trouble shooting it isn't even funny- more than likely it's the ammo; with a weak hammer spring you'd be getting every shot or every second shot misfire- you've got to remember these things are built to m14 FACTORY ROUNDS, which is a 150 grain round moving at roughly 2700 fps- m80 ball- start going lighter than that, and you're going to get misfeeds, light hammer strikes, and a bunch of other stuff- believe me, i've tried a few THOUSAND handloads over the years and finally settled on a 165-168 moving at about 2600 fps- that's your super relaible load- i don't believe that going as light as 145 is going to cause problems,( that's only 2 grains off the 147 us factory) but that and a light powder charge ( it happens) might be
 
When i got my 2009 Norinco , it was actually the model they had on the rack , tucked in the back behind other rifles almost as if to keep it out of sight of the non informed person looking for their latest anti gun journalistic BS.

I took it out within a week , the rifle had pretty much already been cleaned for me but i still went over it pretty good . she functioned flawlessly except for the 5 round mag being hard to get in and out .

when i finally found FMJ rounds i was using 147 grain almost all last summer and never had a single misfire or misfed round . Im at about 400 rounds right now .

I think it just really depends on the rifle , i had heard of some issues so being a newb at the time i installed upgraded Wolff m14 springs and it just feels much tighter , same with the addition of a NM style oprod spring guide.

For a 450$ rifle i couldnt have been happier , it was also my first PAL purchase lol.
 
anonovic.aleksandar said:
I bought my Norinco from SFRC. I was looking at the one at Marstar but didn't feel like waiting. I went to the range and put 200 rounds through it just to loosen it up a bit. I had 2 misfires which I think are due to the hammer spring being weak but not too sure yet. I am heading out tomorrow again so we'll see. I used 145gr Winchester rounds, not re-loaded.

Anyhow, the rifle came in a cardboard box with all the accessories and two mags. So far I am super happy with it but will keep upgrading it till I'm broke, haha
Click to expand...

Have you blown or cleaned out all the grease out of the bolt?
 
some of the newer rifles i've been test firing have real tight magazine fit. Sometimes it's the metal liner slightly bent in and sometimes it's a real close tolerance mag release where it engages the stop on the mag.
this tight fit has caused the occasional misfire or fail to fully feed the next round as the mag, though it feels like it went in all the way..... is just not quite fully seated.

another thing i have noticed on the new rifles when doing initial test firings...... I noticed the odd stoppage on a couple rifles being caused by the gas assembly and stock.
What was happening here was a few thou gap between the cylinder's gas band and the gas band shoulder of the barrel. This combined with the fact that the chinese plastic stocks are 1/16 ish to long at the ferrule, which causes the stock to push on the gas band plate..... was causing a gas sytem related stoppage or fail to fully chamber the next round. Was a hard one to diagnose and to do so i switched in into a usgi fiberglass stock fitted for the chinese receiver , banged of 20 rounds in succession, making sure she warmed up good.... and no issue. put it back into it's plastic stock and 1 failure in the first mag, 2nd mag fine, 2 failures in the third and 4rth mag fine. The final diagnosis was that the pressure of the stock on the gas band, combined with the slight gap between the barrel shoulder and plate, was somehow causing a gas port alignment issue...... at least that was my conclusion hehehe
That rifle is back in it's original stock, appropriately trimmed and ferrule refitted for 15thou gap at the gas band plate, and the gas assembly shimmed (not unitized as per customer request as a sage is in it's future) and the rifle functions flawlessy with 3 different ammunition and every mag in my kit.

there are many things that can cause a failure to feed/failure to fire. I agree with T-star that the hammer spring is most likely not of issue.
on a new rifle I would check gas port alignment, shim accordingly, look for burrs on all bearing surfaces of the receiver that interact with the oprod.
run your finger over the little hole in the receiver roof to ensure the stripper clip guide retaining pin is not protruding into the bolt path.
make sure your gas plug is tight.......
slap the bottom of your mag to ensure the mag is fully seated..... even if you heard it click......

i could go on..... and on..... LOL
 
Part 2 Making noise and hitting nothing

Part 2 Making noise

I got out to the range and managed to shoot about 40 rounds through the rifle. I had a few misfires until I learned how to lock the mag into the well. I found the short clip to be useless but the 20 round (only 5 really grrrrr) gives you something to hang on to when inserting and removing the mag. The misfires were due to not making sure the mag was in correctly. It makes a solid click that you can hear and feel when the mag locks up. I did the break in the barrel thing and it was a royal pain. Shoot once, cool, clean. Do this 3 times. Shoot 2, cool clean. Repeat 3 times. Shot 3, cool, clean. Repeat 3 times, etc.

I didn’t try to zero in the rifle as I was too busy cleaning. Everything worked like it is supposed to, the bolt locked open on the empty mag and I got better at getting the mag placed and locked. I need to take the sights apart and clean and lube, as they were really stiff, I am really tempted to get a Garand sight from the guy in Italy. I have ordered a lot from him before and he has great stuff and really fast shipping.

In reading a number of threads about the M305B, I ordered some new parts from Brownell’s, a new op rod spring (Springfield) and nm op rod spring guide (Badger). I remember reading something about not getting heavier springs from Kueckk, so I didn’t order the stiffer spring kit from Wolff. I also ordered a new butt plate from TreeLine.. I found a bolt tool on ebay and once I get that will pull apart the bolt for a real clean and light oil. I have stripped my Garand bolt with multi purpose tool and I ended up chasing springs all over the place. Any feed back on Chinese extractor and ejectors and their springs. I was thinking about replacing them with USGI. There was a guy at the range who reloads and he a had a look at my brass and said that the shell looked really good. The extractor was easy on the rim and something about the shell looked like it fit into the barrell properly as it was not expanded, reloaders can clarify...

One thing that really bothers me is it looks like the front sight is leaning over to the left. I will have to look at this more and if it is, I don’t know what to do about it.
 
Snitzler said:
Part 2 Making noise

I got out to the range and managed to shoot about 40 rounds through the rifle. I had a few misfires until I learned how to lock the mag into the well. I found the short clip to be useless but the 20 round (only 5 really grrrrr) gives you something to hang on to when inserting and removing the mag. The misfires were due to not making sure the mag was in correctly. It makes a solid click that you can hear and feel when the mag locks up. I did the break in the barrel thing and it was a royal pain. Shoot once, cool, clean. Do this 3 times. Shoot 2, cool clean. Repeat 3 times. Shot 3, cool, clean. Repeat 3 times, etc.

I didn’t try to zero in the rifle as I was too busy cleaning. Everything worked like it is supposed to, the bolt locked open on the empty mag and I got better at getting the mag placed and locked. I need to take the sights apart and clean and lube, as they were really stiff, I am really tempted to get a Garand sight from the guy in Italy. I have ordered a lot from him before and he has great stuff and really fast shipping.

In reading a number of threads about the M305B, I ordered some new parts from Brownell’s, a new op rod spring (Springfield) and nm op rod spring guide (Badger). I remember reading something about not getting heavier springs from Kueckk, so I didn’t order the stiffer spring kit from Wolff. I also ordered a new butt plate from TreeLine.. I found a bolt tool on ebay and once I get that will pull apart the bolt for a real clean and light oil. I have stripped my Garand bolt with multi purpose tool and I ended up chasing springs all over the place. Any feed back on Chinese extractor and ejectors and their springs. I was thinking about replacing them with USGI. There was a guy at the range who reloads and he a had a look at my brass and said that the shell looked really good. The extractor was easy on the rim and something about the shell looked like it fit into the barrell properly as it was not expanded, reloaders can clarify...

One thing that really bothers me is it looks like the front sight is leaning over to the left. I will have to look at this more and if it is, I don’t know what to do about it.
Click to expand...
Replacing the rear sight was a must for me since the chinese i had was crappy and the replacement i got under warranty was barely ok so i bought a garand sight from italy nos.
About your front sight, first you will see when you zero your rifle, with the rear sight in center position,you will see how your rifle will shoot, and if you have to move the front sight. If your rifle hit were is suposed to, front sight left or right doesn't really matter, its a battle rifle after all.
 
There are a couple reasons your front sight leans to the side...some of the sight bases are not milled straight so they are leaning to the side and if the barrel is not tightened onto the receiver enough the front sight will be leaning to the right ( as you look at it from the rear of the rifle). When you align the front sight and the receiver by tightening the barrel onto the receiver this is called indexing the barrel . Lots of info and pics on this subject on here.I posted some under Hungrys clinic in Barrie thread .

I heard on here recently Andy ( in Italy) may be sold out of Garand rear sights but I cant confirm this .
 
chalkriver said:
There are a couple reasons your front sight leans to the side...some of the sight bases are not milled straight so they are leaning to the side and if the barrel is not tightened onto the receiver enough the front sight will be leaning to the right ( as you look at it from the rear of the rifle). When you align the front sight and the receiver by tightening the barrel onto the receiver this is called indexing the barrel . Lots of info and pics on this subject on here.I posted some under Hungrys clinic in Barrie thread .

I heard on here recently Andy ( in Italy) may be sold out of Garand rear sights but I cant confirm this .
Click to expand...

Glad I ordered and got my sight less than 2 weeks ago!
 
Snitzler said:
Part 2 Making noise

I got out to the range and managed to shoot about 40 rounds through the rifle. I had a few misfires until I learned how to lock the mag into the well. I found the short clip to be useless but the 20 round (only 5 really grrrrr) gives you something to hang on to when inserting and removing the mag. The misfires were due to not making sure the mag was in correctly. It makes a solid click that you can hear and feel when the mag locks up. I did the break in the barrel thing and it was a royal pain. Shoot once, cool, clean. Do this 3 times. Shoot 2, cool clean. Repeat 3 times. Shot 3, cool, clean. Repeat 3 times, etc.

I didn’t try to zero in the rifle as I was too busy cleaning. Everything worked like it is supposed to, the bolt locked open on the empty mag and I got better at getting the mag placed and locked. I need to take the sights apart and clean and lube, as they were really stiff, I am really tempted to get a Garand sight from the guy in Italy. I have ordered a lot from him before and he has great stuff and really fast shipping.

In reading a number of threads about the M305B, I ordered some new parts from Brownell’s, a new op rod spring (Springfield) and nm op rod spring guide (Badger). I remember reading something about not getting heavier springs from Kueckk, so I didn’t order the stiffer spring kit from Wolff. I also ordered a new butt plate from TreeLine.. I found a bolt tool on ebay and once I get that will pull apart the bolt for a real clean and light oil. I have stripped my Garand bolt with multi purpose tool and I ended up chasing springs all over the place. Any feed back on Chinese extractor and ejectors and their springs. I was thinking about replacing them with USGI. There was a guy at the range who reloads and he a had a look at my brass and said that the shell looked really good. The extractor was easy on the rim and something about the shell looked like it fit into the barrell properly as it was not expanded, reloaders can clarify...

One thing that really bothers me is it looks like the front sight is leaning over to the left. I will have to look at this more and if it is, I don’t know what to do about it.
Click to expand...





That 20 rounder and that rifle go hand in hand for sure. The 5 rounder is a hunting mag and not really meant for quick changes like may be required in a Battle Rifle. For hunting, pop in in the morning take out at noon etc...it's ok.


If you want to run the 5 rounder on the range, or even the 20's ,use stripper clips. These rifles are made for this and mine functions flawlessly with them. Once you have mastered the 5 round strippers ,you won't load on the range any other way.

As to the front sight leaning to the left, before you get carried away with indexing issues, read the stickies, M-14 Doc talked about alot of the 2009's(mines a 2009) with the flash hider splines not cut in time with the sight base, causing the sight to lean but the barrel is actually in time. This seems to be why mine leans slightly left and therefore my front side needs to be shifted to the right edge to obtain zero when rear sight is centered. A USGI flash hider would fix mine , but I'll shoot it some more first and maybe a NM op rod guide first.



Also to the gentleman who had 2 failures to fire on a new Nork M-14. Maybe the ammo, and make sure the hammer fall is not having to put the bolt in battery because of crud from the factory. Mine stikes, I'd say, too hard for commercial primers, having pierced some, being designed to hit hard and especially new,the way it should on those NATO spec primers.

Read all the stickies, Skullboy, Hungry, M-14 Doc and lots of others have pretty much covered all your questions.:canadaFlag:

Good luck on the range, you will love your Rifle I'm sure.:cheers:
 
It sounds like many M305 owners treat their rifles with much more care than I. I loaded, shot, bore snaked, and toothbrushed gun oil on. (No break in procedure) Adjusted the sites a couple of times, shot more, boresnaked etc. No failures to fire in perhaps 100 rounds of factory ammo. Carried in rain, dropped/fallen in mud and snow, shot 3 bears. Shoots 5 rounds in 3.5-4.0 inches @ 100M once the debris is blown out of the front sight hood. $415 worth of success.
 
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