M38 Jeep Restoration

Stencollector: there was some input on the numbers debate over on the mjeeps forum. The "experts" stated:

"My research shows the upper housing seals as:
-late M38,early M38A1: G758-8332553 = 2530-693-0777=WO 804387.
-late M38A1: G758-8332551 = 2530-693-0775=WO 808415.
My dealer records do reference 5950-933-2553 as being related to G758 number but with no details and it doesn't show up the 1960's SM9 cross references and I believe it was a quickly obsoleted federal stock number replaced by 2530-693-0777.
So the supplied seal 2530-693-0777 should fit the late waterproofed M38 and the early M38A1's. The Canadian master parts list says that the late M38A1 seal 2530-693-0775 "superceeds" the previous seal so presumably they interchange. "

And when asked about where the "0777" number came from by another member:

The equivalence of 2530-693-0777 with G758-8332553, WO 804387, RG 032161 is shown in the Sept. 1960 edition of SM9-3-2 vol.8 Cross Reference of Federal Stock Numbers and also in 1957 edition of SM9-9-3-4 vol.17 Cross Reference of Former Ordnance Stock Numbers (G #'s to us).

Well, if you can make sense of all of that speak in a short amount of time you are a more patient man than I was. To shorten the long story, they are not interchangeable as seen in the picture below.
IMGP2517_zps0d0399ba.jpg


So I continued with the rebuild and re-used the old seal as it was in decent shape.
IMGP2520_zps4875370b.jpg

IMGP2521_zpsba39d5d1.jpg

It is working well after the box was filled with oil. For those who would attempt a steering box rebuild on their own: it is a fairly easy build, but be advised that you may have to ream the brass bushings slightly. A Dremel with medium grit sanding drill worked quite well.

The engine was moved to the same location as the jeep and is prepared to be mated with the the transmission once that rebuild is complete.
IMGP2522_zps6ad5f024.jpg


Diff covers coated in liquid gasket. Magnets JB welded to the drain plugs prepared for fluid
IMGP2514_zpsed613582.jpg

IMGP2515_zps54f87ff3.jpg


Diffs filled with Gear Oil. For those following the project, ensure that you only use GL1-4 rated oil. DO NOT USE GL5 as the high sulphur content can eat away at any brass components. Not a huge problem with differentials, but bad for the transmission and steering box which use the same oil. The drill-powered fluid transfer pump works very very well for this purpose.
IMGP2527_zpsc286461b.jpg
 
The mess of NSNs is par for the course when dealing with military nunbers. I only stick with the Canadian manuals though and do not use the American SNLs, so the 0777 number does not come up on the Cdn side.

Quite frankly you could almost omit that seal. The top of the tube is capped by the steering wheel. Just run some RTV on the top of the gearbox before installing the steering column tube, then clamp the tube. That will prevent any oil that does manage to find it's way out the top of the box from leaking out the bottom of the tube. Or you could measure the bore and shaft diameters and install a plain seal to limit the oil. The top of the steering column tube is covered by the steering wheel, so rain should not be an issue.

End of the day, unless you are going to be fording in 4 or 5 feet of water, you won't need the seal.
 
stencollector said:
End of the day, unless you are going to be fording in 4 or 5 feet of water, you won't need the seal.
Click to expand...

That's the same conclusion that I arrived at. The old seal still does the job quite well. The action of the box doesn't force out oil, and I'm not driving the thing like a submarine.
 
It's time for an update, there has been much progress!

One of the big upgrades on this jeep from a safety standpoint is the addition of a dual reservoir master cylinder. For those who don't know, the old one controlled the front and rear brakes in the same system. 1 leak and the entire system is down. A dual reservoir splits it in 2 so that if one goes down, you don't find yourself without brakes. The kit installed very easily with minimal modification (although it hurt to drill those 4 mounting holes into the frame!)
IMGP2546_zpsba9539a2.jpg


The transmission and transfer case were rebuilt - quite a project.
IMGP2551_zps647f5163.jpg


Mounting everything together with the new overdrive.
IMGP2556_zps29f6d5f7.jpg


Installing the clutch in preparation for transmission mating. Investing in a simple clutch alignment tool saves a lot of time!
IMGP2559_zpsecc29db7.jpg

IMGP2564_zpscbb0e911.jpg


Fast forwarding through much frustration while aligning and mating the two... it's done!
IMGP2583_zpsd1f0e1c9.jpg


Again fast forwarding through a bit of work getting everything to line up into the frame... a little paint and it's beautiful!
IMGP2600_zps9d066a75.jpg


Onto some brake fabrication. Not difficult, just time consuming. Investing or borrowing a quality double flaring kit is a must for the steel lines.
IMGP2606_zps519a9093.jpg

IMGP2604_zpsfa81bc5d.jpg


Here's how she sits now. Feeling more put together and coming along quite nicely.
IMGP2608_zpsf121a673.jpg
 
vettes said:
WTG, It doesnt hurt to do some updates to components for safe reasons, if its a museum piece then worry you didnt stick stock. Nice looking engine, so next summer we cruise yonge street in our green toys? You adding a gun?

Andy
Click to expand...
Thanks Andy!

You're absolutely correct. If you aren't going for a museum or competition rebuild, and if it makes it safer and more enjoyable without major modifications then it's justifiable.

The engine is coming together nicely. I love that original ford tractor blue that many of the canadian m38s came in. Can't wait to hear it purr.

I do have a pintle and cradle that's going to be installed eventually. A little more work on the m38 than the MB or the A1s as they don't have the mounting plate on the crossmember so there's additional brackets that need to be welded to the frame.

Next summer is on for sure.
 
Like vetted said, good choice on the dual reservoir. Sure drilling those four holes hurt, but it hurt way less than the damage that would be cause if your brakes gave out. Physically and emotional.

Jeep is looking beautiful. This and the half track thread are just too cool.
 
Really nice work. I know the process you're going through and how much work is involved, as I have been restoring a classic truck. I hope you get to enjoy driving it soon.
 
Sometimes a little creativity is required during these projects... Like when you removed the exhaust system in one piece after the engine and then re-installed the engine first.
IMGP2612_zps33693e9f.jpg


Onto mounting the radiator and hoses. As opposed to the 2 piece lower assembly listed from some jeep suppliers I highly suggest Napa #7728. A perfect fit, just trim to length. I also went with the flexible hose FF197 for the upper as opposed to a piece of straight hose.
IMGP2628_zps285d91d4.jpg


Here she is basking in the fall sunshine patiently waiting for the body.
IMGP2643_zpsd841e8fb.jpg


Skipping over the dozen or so times that the body went on and off as we marked and drilled mounting holes... here she is! The new body lined up and mounted quite well, lining up better than some of the originals I've seen. The underside of the tub and typical problem spots such as in the taillight housings, toolbox, battery box, and under the gas tank have all been protected with colour-matched linex as well.
IMGP26531_zpsd414c3bb.jpg
 
Last edited:
I just found this thread and being a fellow Jeep aficionado I felt I had to comment.

First upgrading some of the systems for safety is a good thing and once you have deviated from the 100% original it no longer is considered a sin. A 100% one is worth about $25K as long as you can prove it is actually 100%. On a Ford built MB or more properly GPW,,, Every single part on the car has either the Ford Logo or the Ford "F" on the part, and I mean every nut, bolt, and washer. IE every single part was stamped. They are now getting quite rare.

The output shaft in the Transfer Case of my 1960 C5 is from a GPW. It was NOS and I paid $25 for it. When I wire brushed all the surface rust off it I found the F and at that point had to decide to use it or sell it as it was worth about $300 in 1993! I used it.

It is pretty hard and expensive to do a 100% resto on any wartime Jeep and even harder when it is a Ford. Also being able to actually use the thing regularly when you're done is a better than simply storing it until there is a local show and running it maybe a few times a year. They are actually pretty decent around town vehicles.

You are going about this build in the right way and you will have a fun vehicle to use for along time. Good idea on the undercoating too which will make it last a lot longer when you drive it in the winter.

I'd look for a Sears Hard Top or a Kelly Hard Top for winter use, and a heater as well.

A valuable website for you is the CJ3B Page now at http://cj3b.info/ A wealth of info there for all Flat Fender Jeeps.

Good luck!

Randy
 
Fantastic work there!!!!!!
My M38CDN is sitting a trailer right now awaiting spring and a bit of tuning.
Had trouble with flooding the last time I ran her. Adjusted the carb float level just before the snow fell and had to set her into storage.
May have to take the carb off and give it a good cleaning in spring. The park brake also needs some attention.
Found some GL-1 gear oil at a Napa in Montana. Could not find the right stuff here in Alberta, and Napa listed it on their website.
Fluid changes are scheduled for spring.
Keep us up to date on your progress!!!
Thanks for sharing
 
^Alonzo. I call the winter/colder months the "building season" versus the "driving season" which is all to short in Canada and I suspect even shorter for yourself. That all said rebuilding a carb or any small fussy thing that can be tinkered away on the kitchen table its a the time is now kind of thing.
Hawkshadow, your M38 is looking pretty nice, good work all round.
 
Alonzo said:
Fantastic work there!!!!!!

Had trouble with flooding the last time I ran her. Adjusted the carb float level just before the snow fell and had to set her into storage.
May have to take the carb off and give it a good cleaning in spring.
Click to expand...

Carb flooding on the M38/M38A1 was quite common. The only fuel filter that was stock on the M38s was the stone type filter on the end of the pickup tube in the gas tank, and a fine screen in the inlet of the carb. They are not fine enough, and as the tanks and lines get older the tiny rust particles cause the needle to stick as they enter the carb. If this is the cause in your situation, the evidence will be apparent if you lift off the top off your carb. In the bottom of the floatbowl will be a very fine brown sand.

The quick solution is to install an inline filter. There are two locations you can install them. One is to use a mid 70s Ford truck filter right at the carb, and the better location is to install one in the short rubber line between the frame and the fuel pump. You should also clean any collected sediment from your fuel pump, as the stuff will sit in there and clog up the check valves, or find their way up to the carb.

As well, there are two diaphragms on the jeep carb. These are about the only things that can cause flooding in the carb. If the fuel filters don't clear your problem, then you will have to change one or both of the diaphragms. John's kits at midwest military are rated for the gasohol sold today....NOS kits may not be fully compatible with today's fuel.
 
Thanks for the information.
The only thing I saw when I lifted the top of the carb was a light grey sludge like accumulation in the bottom. There was not much there and I wiped most of it out before reassembling.
I may just take it apart again and clean thoroughly.
The other thing I noticed is that the spark plugs are heavily fouled with light carbon I put new plugs in and the thing started like a dream, then within minutes it began running a rough. The next day I checked the plugs and they were heavily fouled with carbon again. The last time I rain it, the thing just died and woudl not start at all.
Spring will be the project time to work on it more.
 
You will need to do both things then. Start off by removing the 1/8nptx5/16 tube 90° fitting on the carb. Replace that fitting with a 1/8 npt male to female elbow. Then install the fuel filter from a 74 Ford F150 into that fitting. You will have to bend the existing steel line to now go into that filter. That will stop the very fine sludge from entering your carb.

If that doesn't cure your problem, then remove the two diaphragms from the left and right of the carb. They are under the small rectangular plates. One of them has developed a small tear or hole. They will get brittle after all these years and may not have been made for gasahol in the first place. As I mentioned in my last post, I recommend the midwest military kits, but I am pretty sure others will carry the same thing.

Cleaning the carb is not necessary. There is little to go wrong in there, and the sludge just collects in the bottom of the bowl. Sludge will not cause flooding once it's past the needle valve....in sufficient quantities or the right location it could cause fuel starvation, but I have never seen it.
 
stencollector said:
You will need to do both things then. Start off by removing the 1/8nptx5/16 tube 90° fitting on the carb. Replace that fitting with a 1/8 npt male to female elbow. Then install the fuel filter from a 74 Ford F150 into that fitting. You will have to bend the existing steel line to now go into that filter. That will stop the very fine sludge from entering your carb.

If that doesn't cure your problem, then remove the two diaphragms from the left and right of the carb. They are under the small rectangular plates. One of them has developed a small tear or hole. They will get brittle after all these years and may not have been made for gasahol in the first place. As I mentioned in my last post, I recommend the midwest military kits, but I am pretty sure others will carry the same thing.

Cleaning the carb is not necessary. There is little to go wrong in there, and the sludge just collects in the bottom of the bowl. Sludge will not cause flooding once it's past the needle valve....in sufficient quantities or the right location it could cause fuel starvation, but I have never seen it.
Click to expand...

Hi all

Quick question guys...Can't get my engine to idle correctly and looses power quickly going up inclines...The fuel / air mixture screw on the lower side of the carb has absolutely no effect on the running of the engine...Wined it right in or right out and it does nothing..!! any auggestions..? thanks all...(rebuild kit. new diaphrams already installed)
 
Last edited:
What level did you set your float to? Sounds like it could be way too low. Remove the top, invert it, and with the gasket still attached to the top you should be able to run the shank of a 1/4 inch bolt just under the float. I have also used a 5/16 bolt just to discount the float from flooding problems and the results have been fine. But in all honesty fuel starvation, if that is what is occurring, could be a lot of things.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom