M38 vs. 91/30 accuracy

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

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So, the M38 is obviously much handier, although not as historic. The recoil is supposedly harsh, but a Limbsaver can help there.

But what about accuracy?

I have read enough about the M44 and its bayonet deal to not think about bothering with one of those, fun as they may be. I don't want to run around the woods with a pigsticker poking everywhere, cool as it may be at the range.
 
It all depends on the bore condition. The recoil on either rifle is not bad off hand, but both can punish your shoulder from a rest. The issue with 99% of M38's is that they are all shot to hell and had to be conterbored. You can gurantee that nearly every M38 ever made saw service. Alot of later production M44's may not have seen asmuch service and would have better bores. You can always remove the bayonet from the M44 for hunting, but hold onto it. 91/30's are nice, but would be a ##### in the woods.
 
Owned all three. Provided condition is similar in all three:

91/30 has longer barrel and longer sight radius, so naturally shoots better. I put a PU scope on mine, but have also had to devise a method for moving through dense stuff with it... Have a cloth muzzle cover for fear of accidentally stuffing it full of pine needles or dirt while entangled in a clump of pine trees.

M38 is quite handy. Personally I prefer them to M44's... just something about how they feel... Mine was fairly accurate once I figured out where it shot. Mine also had g-vg bore and wasn't counterbored though, so that's part of it. Haven't heard much about how the counterbored guns shoot, but unless the bore's buggered all the way down, and not just where it was counterbored I can't see it being a really big problem.

M44. Well, it's cool, but just doesn't do it for me. It's probably psychological, but it just feels heavier and unbalanced to me. If you dropped the bayo that'd mostly alleviate it though... probably. I heard all sorts of stuff about 91/30's being sighted with bayos affixed too, as the usual practice was supposedly to keep them mounted at all times unless for storage or transport, but most I've seen shoot pretty much the same. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the bayo will be the issue.

M44's are the best price right now, considering you're looking for a carbine, so why not give'er a try? Find one for cheap and if you don't like it you can always sell it to someone else.
 
I have a m 38 counter bored. Got it from epps. bore is a little dark but rifling is strong. It shoots about 3 moa on average 5 shot groups with Czech silvertip. about the same with S&B hunting load. Put 20 fast fire from rest into 6 inch circle at 100 about 5 moa. If the stock was accurized and barrel free floated and hand loaded i am sure it would do much much better. Definitely inside minute of moose in the northeast. :D
 
If you're shooting with open sights, the 91/30 might give you better accuracy on account of the increased sight radius, but all things considered the inherent accuracy of the 91/30 and M38 are the same. Perhaps I'd choose the 91/30 over the M38 if I were hunting from a stationary stand, but would certainly prefer the M38 or M44 when walking through bush.

If you're thinking of getting a no-gunsmithing scout mount and low magnification LER scope for an M38 or M44, that would make up for any loss of accuracy that might come from the shorter sight radius. Tradeex has some mounts for a reasonable cost, though a good scope will probably put you back at least the price of the rifle. The NC Star LER scopes at Marstar are the cheapest bet (about $40), and I picked up a few for shooting cast bullets in my Mausers at 100m (where the original sights are too hard on my eyes) but I would not bet a hunting season on the reliability of those scopes just yet.

I've only fired my 91/30 thusfar, so I'm speculating about the shorter M38 and M44 that I also own, but I certainly don't think that they'd be lacking for any kind of hunting in the bush with open sights for deer or larger sized game. Though I think that an M38 would be ideal, there's lots of M44s available with pristine bores, which I'd choose over a dark one any day.

With Regards,

Frank
 
This question is invalid.

Each individual firearm is accurate, or not; fresh barrel, or shot-out.

(I've got both a carbine, and a 91/30) Guys who want the best in accuracy in these guns buy cases of them, test each one, keep the hummers, and re-sell the average and the dogs. The quantity deal they got, and the loss they take on taxes and shipping usually about even out, or so I hear.

Everybody has their magic voodoo tricks to see if a guns going to shoot well or not by looking at it on the rack, but you can't really tell, short of taking it to the range.

P.S. The recoil on both guns is stiff, but the problem with the m44 is actually muzzle blast, rather than the actual force on your shoulder. That run fact doesn't stop the effect from being very disconcerting though.
 
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The M44 bayonet is for Bear defense. :D

Also if one does not like the muzzle flash then stop using the heavy ball milsurp ammo.

I used some modern Seller Bellot 7.62x54R a while back and it had very little muzzle flash.
 
I have a M44, I had it scoped for a while (with a no gunsmith mount of course), did quite ok at 100 and 150 yards. Didn't try at 200. I had removed the bayonet.

I have a 91/30, it shoots quite well, and the historical significance of that model is quite... documented? Valid? Significant? I love shooting that rifle, only time I find the M44 easier to shoot is when I'm standing.

I probably will get a M38 sooner or later. I would be ready to bet that, at short range, all three - in good shape - will shoot better than what my skills are capable of. So in my opinion, it's a question of looking at why you're getting a MN - the answer will dictate the choice?
 
For the record, counter-boring is NO indication of bore condition. many of these guns were counterbored out of hand, whether needed or not. In the cases where it was needed, it fixed crown damage.

If anything it will improve performance, not lower it.

Some people find the CB distasteful from a collection standpoint, but that is a personal decision.
 
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