M39 with never ending carbon fouling...

Sakonut

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So last spring summer I decided to make use of my 1944 M39 that had been sitting unused for about 2 years. Shot about 100-140 rds of the MFS fmj ammo through it over a few sessions, and began cleaning. It took 50+ patches of everything from hoppes to butches bore shine two soakings with wipeout and countless passes with a nylon brush to get the patches to come out cleanish. CLP in the bore and back into the safe.

Out of curiousity, I ran a few patches of hoppes through today and dirty again. 10 passes with a brush and the soaked patches that followed were FILTHY! As in an sks bore after 100rds of corrosive dirty. No signs of rust, and no signs of copper after multiple passes with butches. It all appears to be carbon. Only other option I can think of would be to try JB bore paste, think it would help?

Any suggestions are much appreciated, thanks
 
I have just put down my M39 and I have exactly the same in mine! Every time I open the safe I push a few patches through it just to see if after 2 years one might come out clean, the bore looks okay, shiny, minimally frosted, and the gun is superbly accurate as is so I am not too worried about it, and I am not someone that likes cleaning rifles, I shoot MFS 203gr SP through it only so rust isn't an issue. So come on wizards with your words of wisdom!
 
id soak it in solvents, ive heard people drenching barrels over night to o really break up the stuff, me personally i keep going till the patches come out clean, and some times i leave it dirty, if it's accurate and dirty keep it a bit dirty, lol just a matter of time imo too get it clean.
 
I always use RemClean first. It is a mild abrasive that scrapes out carbon fouling. I do 2 or 3 of rem Clean, then leave a good copper solvent overnight. leave rifle muzzle down and in the morning, one more RemClean scrubs out all the chemical crap. Then CLP.

My theory is that carbon needs physical action and metal needs chemical action.
 
I ended up trying the JB paste and kroil with decent success, had problems keeping the felt plug on the jag only allowing me to push one way breech to muzzle so I didn't get the full effect of the back and forth scrubbing. Following with a bronze brush brought out a good deal of crap. Keeping up with this should do the trick, might have to try some
remoil as well thanks
 
Rather then going out and buying all these different products, make up a batch of Ed's Red. A gallon should cost about $15-$20. That should last you quite a while. I am still on the batch that I made up last spring, it's only about 1/4 gone.

This is what my batch is based on, only I have substituted in MEK, and jet fuel (see addendum).

Ed's Red
As a general bore cleaner, plastic wad remover, and carbon solvent the following formula, a creation of C.E Harris, and dubbed "Ed's Red" works quite well. In fact many folks claim it is better than anything they've tried. The original formula is:

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III Automatic Transmission Fluid - GM Spec D20265 or later
1 part K1 Kerosene
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits federal spec TT-T-2981F (CAS# 64741-49-9) or Stodard Solvent/Varsol (CAS#8052-41-1)
1 part Acetone (CAS#67-64-1)

Formula Addendum
It has been reported that methyethylketone/MEK (CAS#78-93-3) can be satisfactorily substituted for the acetone if desired.

It has been reported that Turpentine can be satisfactorily substituted for the Mineral Spirits if desired. The original Frankfort Arsenal formula upon which Ed's Red is based used turpentine rather than mineral spirits which were substituted for lower cost. Turpentine also tends to leave a gummy residue.

It has been reported that Kroil penetrating oil can be satisfactorily substituted for the kerosene if desired.

It has been reported that the lower numbered "JP" jet fuels can be used in place of kerosene.

It has been reported that Goo-Gone (a commercial citrus based solvent) can be satisfactorily substituted for the mineral spirits if desired.

It has been reported that commercial automotive "engine flush" can be substituted for the ATF (but you lose the red color).

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, or chemical-resistant, heavy gage NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers. Do NOT use light weight, thin, high density polyethelyne (HDPE), which is breathable, because the acetone will gradually evaporate. Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING
a) Insure that the firearm is unloaded and that all magazines are removed. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with Ed's Red, wrap or impale on a jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.

b) Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.

c. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.

d) Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for up to 30 days. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years.

e) Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes and it could damage some plastics if left in prolonged contact.

f) Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described.

Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean twice, two days apart, whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the residue out.
 
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I have had good luck with the foaming bore cleaners. "Wipe Out" seems to work the best for me. I recently bought a Swedish Mauser with the bore condition described as "rusty" and it looked like it. One application of "Wipe Out" gave me a shiny bore.

I have even "cleaned" bores and had them looking good. Then, next day, cleaned with "Wipe Out", left it for about 8 hours or so, then ran some patches through the bore. Big surprise the first time, as the patches came out very dirty from the "clean" bore.

On a really fouled bore, I run a brass brush with solvent down it, followed by a few patches to get the larger pieces of crud. Then I plug the chamber with a couple of patches, give the rifle a shot of foam down the bore, lay it horizontal, and leave it for at least 8 hours. Then I use patches until they come out clean. It is amazing how that stuff works.
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Rather then going out and buying all these different products, make up a batch of Ed's Red. A gallon should cost about $15-$20. That should last you quite a while. I am still on the batch that I made up last spring, it's only about 1/4 gone.

This is what my batch is based on, only I have substituted in MEK, and jet fuel (see addendum).

MEK on its own will clean just about anything. Just make sure you wear a good chemical mask. MEK is a cumulative chemical (your liver cannot metabolize it or get rid of it).
 
use a small funnel and piece of hose to pour bowling water through the bore, from the chamber end. this will kill the chemical action going on.then clean and oil well.
 
Thanks Cdn303 for the Ed's Red I finally made my own batch after reading about it and I will never use any other gun cleaner again cleaned out that M39 bore in minutes, very impressed, found all the ingredients at Canadian Tire and cheap to boot!
 
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