M4 vs AR15 ....the winner is?

Gmwebs said:
how dare you sir.

How dare you suggest more money spent results in a superior product. damn capitalism.

Mil-spec is the baseline minimum requirement, that's it, it will not be the best out there. Cheapest bid that mades the grade gets the contract.
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You won't get a great gun for cheap, but there comes a point of diminishing returns. And there's also a lot of money spent on functionality that simply isn't relevant to the end user. Does a typical shooter need to spend over $3K on an optic for their AR? Absolutely not. For less than 1/6th that cost, you can get an optic that will outperform and out last 99% of the people who use them. But you'd never get someone like Flannel Daddy to admit that.

There's a lot of wallet-driven elitism in the gun market. It doesn't actually make people better shooters.

Also, mil-spec is NOT the baseline minimum requirement. Far from it. There's a lot of commercial products out there performing at well below mil-spec requirements. There's also a lot to be said to staying within mil-spec, for cross compatibility reasons.
 
FoxAlpha said:
That’s a BCM MCMR upper. No geissele anything....

That being said, I’ll never understand why safe queen shooters will opine that modern AR15’s won’t “hold up” under combat duress. Meanwhile many of these top names in the civilian AR15 world are also supplying parts and in some cases, rifles, to top tier units using whatever they deem necessary over seas and at home in various law enforcement capacities.


Some things really need to be explained, and rack grade issued rifles are not “built” any better than most of the quality manufacturers out there. The term “military grade” was once described to me by a former CF tech as being nothing more than “the lowest common denominator”. Just because the military has issued it doesn’t mean it’s not a giant hunk of sh!t compared to what’s available in the vast civilian market.
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For shame! How did I not see that MCMR rail. My apologies.
 
grelmar said:
You won't get a great gun for cheap, but there comes a point of diminishing returns. And there's also a lot of money spent on functionality that simply isn't relevant to the end user. Does a typical shooter need to spend over $3K on an optic for their AR? Absolutely not. For less than 1/6th that cost, you can get an optic that will outperform and out last 99% of the people who use them. But you'd never get someone like Flannel Daddy to admit that.

There's a lot of wallet-driven elitism in the gun market. It doesn't actually make people better shooters.

Also, mil-spec is NOT the baseline minimum requirement. Far from it. There's a lot of commercial products out there performing at well below mil-spec requirements. There's also a lot to be said to staying within mil-spec, for cross compatibility reasons.
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For some people mil spec is the baseline for a minimum requirement.

And that depends on what your definition of perform is.

It's a set parameters that gives you certain standards the gun must meet. It's a safe baseline. Especially if you are fairly inexperienced.
 
I think Garand Thumb is talking more from a shooter perspective. His technical talk is dubious at times and I usually just fast forward.

From a "shooter perspective", GT made some valid analysis. A M4 is like the Canadian Army snow shoe, and the BCM is like your MSR snow shoe. The reason we are stuck with tennis rackets just because we need to tread through big deep snow fields, but MSR snow shoes are much faster, more agile in many different terrains and you can even use it in races, but it doesn't do as well on open deep snow with very heavy stuff on.
 
enefgee said:
I really don't get the fuss about MilSpec - remember this

https://imgur.com/a/0ANaOc9

This was MilSpec too.
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Not the same thing. The vehicle was selected for MIL use, it was not designed for any specific purpose other than to be a utility vehicle. MILSPEC on a rifle means the rifle met some sort of standard. Without MILSPEC there is no standard for the rifle or its parts to achieve. MILSPEC isn't the best of standards but it is the only standard right now.
 
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