M44 (old pooched barrel)

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ghostntheshell

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Howdy folks. As some may or may not know, I own a couple M44's - and the first one I aquired, I fired surplus through it for YEARS and only cleaned with hoppes / oil. The barrel rusted eventually - as I only fired surplus through it.

I have been cleaning the snot out of it for three days. The first time, I soaked it down. Let it sit for hours. Used an older brass brush and went to town. Rust coloured slop poured out of it. But seemed *much* better than I expected.

Next, I corked it and sat it vertically, filling the barrel with hoppes#9. I let it sit over night. The next mornign I uncorked and the hoppes poured out dirt and blue liquid. (copper fouling?)

I used a new brass brush and wen to town. Black patch after black patch. Endless black patches. They would become grey if I ran enough through with no hoppes - but as soon as I added more hoppes the patches were black.

Soaked a 2nd night corked with hoppes #9. This time, just dirty hoppes, and no blue.

Black patch after black patch until I got it almost* clean.

I did JB bore bright and as per the directions, the patch came out black after I was fiished. The bore looks ok. There is visible pitting at the muzzle (I think it's pitting).

When cleanign out the JB bore bright, again, I used hoppes#9 and the bloody patches are still coming out black!


I have been cleaning rifles for about 13 years now. Mind you - I have never dealt with a barrel in worse condition. This was the only rifle I had used surplus in (aside from my 8 round of surplus through the garand). Normally I can have a clean barrel (considering they have been cared for) in an hourish, depending on how long I had waited.

When the hell is thing gonan be clean? How long should I expect to be pushing black patches through?

The barrel looks pitted near the muzzle - but the rest actually looks surprisingly ok. The rifling is strong too.



SUGGESTIONS?
 
Its probably as clean as its going to get, forget about getting a clean patch out of it again. Pitted bores can hold an amazing amount of crud.
 
I use Hoppes #9 too. What I've found is that if I keep scrubbing with a wet patch, the patches will come out black forever. It seems like there is something in Hoppes that blackens when rubbed on steel.
 
I once owned a mosin with a dark and slightly pitted bore. It still shot really well with pretty tight groups, cleaning it was a ##### though.
Added to say, try something other than Hoppes, I use Butch's Bore Shine, works great on old milsurp barrels.
 
ghostntheshell said:
Howdy folks. As some may or may not know, I own a couple M44's - and the first one I aquired, I fired surplus through it for YEARS and only cleaned with hoppes / oil. The barrel rusted eventually - as I only fired surplus through it.

I have been cleaning the snot out of it for three days. The first time, I soaked it down. Let it sit for hours. Used an older brass brush and went to town. Rust coloured slop poured out of it. But seemed *much* better than I expected.

Next, I corked it and sat it vertically, filling the barrel with hoppes#9. I let it sit over night. The next mornign I uncorked and the hoppes poured out dirt and blue liquid. (copper fouling?)

I used a new brass brush and wen to town. Black patch after black patch. Endless black patches. They would become grey if I ran enough through with no hoppes - but as soon as I added more hoppes the patches were black.

Soaked a 2nd night corked with hoppes #9. This time, just dirty hoppes, and no blue.

Black patch after black patch until I got it almost* clean.

I did JB bore bright and as per the directions, the patch came out black after I was fiished. The bore looks ok. There is visible pitting at the muzzle (I think it's pitting).

When cleanign out the JB bore bright, again, I used hoppes#9 and the bloody patches are still coming out black!


I have been cleaning rifles for about 13 years now. Mind you - I have never dealt with a barrel in worse condition. This was the only rifle I had used surplus in (aside from my 8 round of surplus through the garand). Normally I can have a clean barrel (considering they have been cared for) in an hourish, depending on how long I had waited.

When the hell is thing gonan be clean? How long should I expect to be pushing black patches through?

The barrel looks pitted near the muzzle - but the rest actually looks surprisingly ok. The rifling is strong too.



SUGGESTIONS?
Click to expand...
Try Barnes CR10 bore cleaner if you can have, i have very good result with.
 
With older used milsurps rifles like your M44 you'll always be pulling crud from the bore.

I get the point where the lands are strong and visible (providing they are decently strong to begin with), clean with hoppes (and in the worse cases bore gel) and work until the bore is free of any real obstructions. Once there, if I decide that she is safe to fire, I will take the rifle in question out to the range, and fire ~ 10 or so rounds down the bore. You will be surprised how much stuff comes out of your bore or is much more willing to be pushed out with a brush and patch afterwards.

The best example of this would have to be my 1916 Erfurt Gewehr 98. Bore came to me looking like a 6mm with no visible lands and all that I was pushing out was brown mud and dirt. I had a really tall pile of used cleaning patches that never seemed to be ending. I cleaned her to the point of seeing a reasonably fair bore that was free of obstructions and took her to the range to assist in the bore clean up. You should have seen the clouds of dirt coming out of the muzzle when she fired her first five shots. I then took her home afterwards and cleaned her again and to my enjoyment I came out with a very good bore with strong lands and very light pitting in the end and a much smaller used patch pile.

Mind you the patches do not always come out sparkling clean but they are a far cry from the ripped, brown stained, dirt infested patches that came out her bore the first time I cleaned her.

I have had great success performing the same strategy with other firearms that came to me with a "poor bore" only to have a good to very good one afterwards. Perhaps you may have the same luck with your M44 ?
 
Looking through a bore scope your pitted M44 would look like the picture below. (On a good day in the best section of your bore) :(Do you notice your bore looks like the surface of the moon and full of deep craters?)

7-2-201085253PM.jpg


Below is a new button rifled bore.

990900081.jpg


And here is a custom made barrel that has been hand lapped to a mirror like finish.

smoothbore.jpg



You have two choices.

1. Clean and polish the bore and trade it in on a different milsurp with a better bore when the "old guy" is working the counter who wears thick glasses and can't see as well as the younger guys can.

2. Fill the chamber and bore with lead and use the rifle as a boat anchor.

Hawkeye Borescope Rifle Inspection video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2n7Bm8Xzjw&feature=player_embedded


Lilja BoreScope Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9zZqn00CA&feature=player_embedded
 
Ha ha well, my conscience wouldn't allow me to sell it without full disclosure.

I am going to keep it and shoot it. IF it's not grouping at all and only providing me random flyers, then I will look at my next step.

There is a guy on this forum who's willing to sell me a bolt for it.
 
Update / bump for the guy in the redrifle section: some good infor for him.

Bought / received the bolt.

I shoot the M44 these days and the old girl is still accurate and the barrel looks decent!
 
Dont shy from a dark bore, even with some pitting. I have seen some really nasty looking milsurp bbls that shoot very well.
 
ArtyMan said:
Dont shy from a dark bore, even with some pitting. I have seen some really nasty looking milsurp bbls that shoot very well.
Click to expand...

+1 on that.

My M95 Steyr,Finn M91 Mosin and Polish M44 came to me with very nasty looking bores.I took forever to clean them up, and on occasion Steyr still spits out flakes of something.

When getting bore like this I'm far more concerned with concentricity (I'm not sure if this is the right word)of the bore and possible long,continuous cracks in the barrel alongside of the rifling due to rusting.Those can cause major mishap but luckily I didn'd run into this problem.

Btw-all those rifles with "tired" bores get fed with cast projectiles to lower the strain on old actions and to lower cost of shooting them.They can be very accurate if I do my part correctly.
 
Swiend said:
I once owned a mosin with a dark and slightly pitted bore. It still shot really well with pretty tight groups, cleaning it was a ##### though.
Added to say, try something other than Hoppes, I use Butch's Bore Shine, works great on old milsurp barrels.
Click to expand...

+1 on the Butch's bore cleaner. That stuff is wicked. Don't breathe the fumes in. I thought the bore on my SMLE was pretty clean until I tried the Butch"s. It came out mirror like with clean patches.
 
Swiend said:
I once owned a mosin with a dark and slightly pitted bore. It still shot really well with pretty tight groups, cleaning it was a ##### though.
Added to say, try something other than Hoppes, I use Butch's Bore Shine, works great on old milsurp barrels.
Click to expand...

I second this. one caution crack a window butches smells awful and makes my brain hurt. it cleans like no tommorow though.
 
Hoppes No9 removes copper deposits, it doesn't do much for primer salts that were driven into the microscopic cracks in the bore. The old Brit method of a funnel in the arse end of the barrel and a kettle full of boiling hot water is what's needed to flush out the salt.
 
Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner.

I've tried electric bore cleaners, but using a good foaming bore cleaner is just easier and as effective as the electronic bore cleaner.

So go get a can, follow the directions, and stop wasting endless amounts of patches, oil, and make fewer passes with a cleaning rod.

Trust me. Save yourself the wasted effort and try a bottle. It has worked wonders on my old Enflields and Mosins.

Think I'm full of sh*t? Or a Gunslick salesman? Read the reviews:

hxxp://www.cabelas.com/solvents-lubes-bluing-gunslick-foaming-bore-cleaner-8482-1.shtml
 
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