Maccabee build using my BCL stuff

Ustauk said:
For the WK180-C, people Loctite in the screw-in charging handle until such time as they need to do a field strip. Perhaps this could be done on the Maccabee? Also, Spectre Ballistics International make a hardened bolt charging handle with an expanded 3D printed shell for the WK; would an enlarged handle be of use on the Maccabee?
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loctite, glue... weld. These are just band aids to something that should have been addressed in design.

Larger handle could be nice from a looks and feel stand point.... but still doesn't address the ongoing problem

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
the current cross pin is pounded to 1/3 shorter orginal length... wouldn't budge. Drill is the next solution but I wanted to make sure the rifle would even work before taking things apart further.

Feeding is the next issue... might have to look at other brands/types of mags. Surprised that such a well established design can have so many quirks

Jerry
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If it's even a comparable setup, my Stag 10 would feed 100% with magpul PMAGS, would feed iffy with the factory metal Stag 10 mag...
 
How do you find it for bolt manipulation speed? Running the bolt with the support hand (which it looks like you're doing) seems like it would work OK in a really stable prone position, but I imagine it would be a lot of moving that hand around for any position that requires the support hand for.. well, supporting the rifle. Does running the bolt upset the rifle and your point of aim any more or less than, say, you're 783?
 
Congrats on having a bolt stop. That bit is essential with mags that only lock in under an open bolt! Very key missing bit on the Renegade where you get to hold back the bolt with one hand, feed in the mag with the other, and hold the whole thing steady with umm.
 
TheNatural21 said:
How do you find it for bolt manipulation speed? Running the bolt with the support hand (which it looks like you're doing) seems like it would work OK in a really stable prone position, but I imagine it would be a lot of moving that hand around for any position that requires the support hand for.. well, supporting the rifle. Does running the bolt upset the rifle and your point of aim any more or less than, say, you're 783?
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A 783 will eat this rifle for lunch... with a straight pull, if there is any stickiness in your brass, you are working to get it open. This is at pressures a bolt wouldn't even notice. Given the cartridge, you would be leaving alot of velocity vs a proper bolt set up.

Then you are fighting the buffer spring which definitely requires a big heave ho... my 783 needs a flick to lift the bolt and then glides back and forth to cycle.

Given how fussy my rifle is currently for feeding, it wouldn't make sense. If it runs great with PMAGs, wonderful except now you only have a 5rds capacity

Early days and lots to sort out.. but I am not seeing this as a PRS capable rifle at this time. Maybe more time and debugging might change my mind.....????

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But it looks like it wants to shoot. 180yds in very gusty conditions. Had some 1F brass and also some new stuff. Don't know if the out was a gust or rifle but the core 3rds look very promising. All rds single loaded as feeding is currently really sketchy

Jerry
 

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old303 said:
Congrats on having a bolt stop. That bit is essential with mags that only lock in under an open bolt! Very key missing bit on the Renegade where you get to hold back the bolt with one hand, feed in the mag with the other, and hold the whole thing steady with umm.
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Yes, the bolt stop was another reason I went with the Maccabee

Jerry
 
I think I have identified a few trouble spots that are causing feeding issues. All the machining on the bottom of the carrier have sharp edges. These hang up on the case, feed lips and either slow down the carrier or just get stuck. Having brass on all the edges was a clear sign there was rubbing where there shouldn't be.

Gave all the surface a bit of 400grit to knock off the corners. That improved things a bunch.

Depending on the mag, the carrier looked like it was rubbing on the feed lips. I opened the lips on a mag just a bit and it just stopped the carrier dead in its tracks. I don't feel there is any reason for the bottom of the carrier to rub on the top of the feed lips. I will relieve those surfaces on the carrier some more which will give addn clearance above the mag lips. Now this dimension is mag specific so another type/brand may have plenty of clearance??? I just don't have any other mags but the C products pistol mags.

The magwell is starting to loosen up.. I might speed up the process with a bit of sanding. Before ALL mags were grab and pull. Now 1/2 of them will almost drop free.

The upper and carrier definitely benefits from being cycled many times.. things are starting to not stick and move freer. Deburring the carrier bottom and being selective in the mags might lead to consistent feeding.

Jerry
 
At 700m today in light winds.. using FF load. Wouldn't reliably feed with any of my mags. Will have to look at pmags or other types.

Accuracy was fantastic and right there with my bolt rifles. Had to use a lighter load and even then, a few cases needed a good pull to get out. Very sensitive to case sizing. I gave up and single loaded which is quite easy as you hold the bolt back with the left hand and feed with the right.

As a single feed LR toy, works very well. will update if I can figure out how to get it to feed from the mag properly.

Jerry
 
" with a straight pull, if there is any stickiness in your brass, you are working to get it open "
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The guys from Specter Ballistics looked into building a large-frame (.308) version of their LPC straight-pull receiver.

However; They decided not to go forward with the project because of this exact issue.
They said .308 extraction was exponentially more difficult than it was with their 5.56 rifles.
 
This handle style seems to be really popular in the UK.
It looks like it gives a bit more leverage, to yank the action open forcefully.

 
Mystic Precision said:
A 783 will eat this rifle for lunch... with a straight pull, if there is any stickiness in your brass, you are working to get it open. This is at pressures a bolt wouldn't even notice. Given the cartridge, you would be leaving alot of velocity vs a proper bolt set up.

Then you are fighting the buffer spring which definitely requires a big heave ho... my 783 needs a flick to lift the bolt and then glides back and forth to cycle.

Given how fussy my rifle is currently for feeding, it wouldn't make sense. If it runs great with PMAGs, wonderful except now you only have a 5rds capacity

Early days and lots to sort out.. but I am not seeing this as a PRS capable rifle at this time. Maybe more time and debugging might change my mind.....????

View attachment 497735

View attachment 497736

But it looks like it wants to shoot. 180yds in very gusty conditions. Had some 1F brass and also some new stuff. Don't know if the out was a gust or rifle but the core 3rds look very promising. All rds single loaded as feeding is currently really sketchy

Jerry
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Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. These straight pulls seem like a decent solution to use parts that otherwise are collecting dust, but other than that I don't see the benefit. If they were faster to operate that might be something.. but it sounds like they're more finicky than the bolt actions we were using before, and I don't like the AR or LR-308 style mags because of round limitations. My bolt guns have 10 and 14 round mags (12 round AICS with +2 extension); I don't want to use 5 rounds in a pmag for a straight pull.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
This handle style seems to be really popular in the UK.
It looks like it gives a bit more leverage, to yank the action open forcefully.

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Thanks for the video... nice set up but as importantly, positive feeding and capacity beyond 5rds. I think a 308 is likely a better chamber especially if running a stubby bullet and lower pressure WITH a nice hard case. NATO spec pressures with nice milspec or Lapua cases launching a FMJ type bullet... exactly what the entire rifle was designed around. That would likely work great... but I have little interest in the recoil and short range performance.

Next task is to beg, borrow, buy some PMags and see if that solves the feeding issue. I am running low enough pressures, I should be able to get the cycling part but the current mags don't feed.

Jerry
 
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TheNatural21 said:
Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. These straight pulls seem like a decent solution to use parts that otherwise are collecting dust, but other than that I don't see the benefit. If they were faster to operate that might be something.. but it sounds like they're more finicky than the bolt actions we were using before, and I don't like the AR or LR-308 style mags because of round limitations. My bolt guns have 10 and 14 round mags (12 round AICS with +2 extension); I don't want to use 5 rounds in a pmag for a straight pull.
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What would have been better is an actual bolt rifle style upper with an AR'ish lower. Now you have the camming power of a typical bolt which would eliminate ALL of these issues. Even go so far as to make an AICS magwell... Think floating bolt head like a Savage but use an AR10 bolt so you have very small angel of bolt lift. Because you are not fighting to compress a firing pin spring, the bolt lift likely would not be be heavy. I don't think the assisted closing is much of an advantage given all the current headaches.

The 50 BMGs uppers would be inline with what I have in mind.

There is at least one such rifle made in the US.... but runs on AR10 type mags.

I have zero complaints about the accuracy performance and it satisfies a very long standing question I had about bolt lugs and lock up. Now to figure out how to get it to feed.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
What would have been better is an actual bolt rifle style upper with an AR'ish lower. Now you have the camming power of a typical bolt which would eliminate ALL of these issues. Even go so far as to make an AICS magwell... Think floating bolt head like a Savage but use an AR10 bolt so you have very small angel of bolt lift. Because you are not fighting to compress a firing pin spring, the bolt lift likely would not be be heavy. I don't think the assisted closing is much of an advantage given all the current headaches.

The 50 BMGs uppers would be inline with what I have in mind.

There is at least one such rifle made in the US.... but runs on AR10 type mags.

I have zero complaints about the accuracy performance and it satisfies a very long standing question I had about bolt lugs and lock up. Now to figure out how to get it to feed.

Jerry
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I agree. DPMS barrels; AR furniture, ergonomics and triggers; but with a turn bolt that ran quickly and smoothly and AICS or AIAW mags. That would be an absolutely fantastic rifle, although similar to the Q Fix or that new-ish Sig. I quite like that concept for a general purpose/patrol type rifle in Canada.
 
got rid of the gas tube.. drilled out the cross pin. Shooting again at 700m and it did great. Will try and seal off the gas port better

Waiting on PMAGs and hope the feeding issue goes away.

Overall, the rifle functioned just fine... single loading was not really a big deal... Extraction with light loads worked just fine.... way more accurate than I think a semi would be at this distance. So nice, to get my 'AR' parts making noise and putting lead downrange.

Jerry
 
The PMAGs have changed the function problems completely. 20rds feeds best and also almost a drop free fit.

10rds feeds well BUT not even close to fitting in the mag well. Alot of material needed to be removed all around the mag to allow it a snug fit in the magwell. The lettering molded into the mag is almost sanded off.... not even remotely fitting in the magwell.

Cycling and function with superb accuracy. If I get motivated, I might pick up some Lapua brass for the super hard case head and see if the extraction stickiness can be made to go away.

At that point, it would be a very interesting option as a LR precision rifle. Dont like the mag capacity...

Please add your build to this post if you decide to pick up one of these kits.

Jerry
 
^
Cross Industries mentioned they were developing .308 XCR pistol versions of their Cross Magazines. In .223, the magazines were noted to be loose. Perhaps you could contact them to see if you could test a prototype .308 Cross Mag in your Maccabee?
 
So question about bcl handguard and barrel nut compatibility…my bcl has a MI handguard on it with the armalite barrel nut. Can I just I get another MI barrel nut in dpms and rescue my handguard?
 
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