Magnums and real world range and power.

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abbaswede

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I have had a fair number 22s and shotguns, but my centerfire rifle experience is limited pretty much to .303 and 6.5x55mm. So, my question is, math tables aside, how much real world difference are these magnum cartriges making compared to the older stuff like .308 and 30-06? Are 7mm Rem mag and 300 Win mag etc. really buying noticeibly more range and/or stopping power?
 
i was out shooting last weekend and we were shooting a bock of wood the 7mm rem mag didn’t penetrate through it the 300 win did.... there is a huge difference right there you hit bone with the 7mm it may not do the best of jobs.
ttyal
Riley

edited: holy crist that was bad spelling LOL :D ;)
 
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For the average shooter NO. For the shooter that is willing to spend a lot of time and money invested in handloading equipment or premium ammunition and, and, and etc, that is another matter. The really big question is wether you need the extended range or not and wether you can handle the extra and often excessive recoil. Many times just a change in bullet weight will make up the difference needed or perceived to be needed. If you look at the handloading manuals, most of the standard length magnum cartridges don't offer much extra performance with the lighter weight bullets (100-200 fps) There is'n an animal out there that can tell the difference. The 30-06 won't really outperform the 308Win until you start loading 200grn bullets into it, then it will have a significant advantage, the same can be said for magnum cartridges. The best thing for most shooters is to shoot the heaviest bullets at the velocity and recoil limit they can comfortably handle. If you find the 338 Win Mag to aggressive for you to shoot confidently then go to a 338-06 or 338Federal, 35 Whelan. Darn close to magnum performance and a lot easier on the reflexes. Then again a 30-06 with 200grn bullets loaded to 2700fps is no slouch at any range either, as long as you are proficient enough to hit your target. bearhunter
 
Dump Junky, put an X bullet in 7mm and it will out penetrate a 300 with a standard softpoint

bullet construction is more important than energy and bullet weight, within reason

the belted magnums (and WSMs) make hits easier past 250 yards, due to less bullet drop.

I do not own a 'magnum' cartridge anymore :)
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There is probably no real advantage to the magnums if you have a range finder and are familiar with your non-magnum's performance through lots of practice.

It is funny that DJ talks about shooting wood blocks with the .300 and the 7mm. If you had a FMJ with a .308 Win it would out penetrate both of the magnums. What does this mean to the hunter? Nothing.

I did shoot into a really big block of soaking wet cedar with both my 7mm RM using 175gr Partitions @ 2950 fps and my .300 WM using 220gr Partitions at 2850fps. The difference in penetration between the two was maybe 2" in favour of the .300WM. Total penetration was around 12-14" or so, but I didn't measure the exact numbers. Like I said, this is just fooling around and that doesn't amount to a very big hill of beans.

Most people go to shooting ranges that have no more than 300 yard settings for targets. A .308 or .30-06 with good bullets will efficiently kill moose, elk, deer etc. to that range...and farther. Since you can really only practice to that range, it is probably unwise to shoot at game farther anyways.
 
A 300 Mag is a 30-06 150yds farther out. If you want more performance you need bigger bullets, .338 outperforms smaller bores. This is on large aminals(Moose, Elk, Bears) for deer size stuff if you know your trajectory you should be able to cleanly take game to any sensible range with standard cartidges. Magnums do not instantly turn average shots into 5-600 yrd capable shots.
 
I try to ignore ####-jockey for the most part but that post is quite ludicrous.:rolleyes:
The question was not about whether a 7mm will out perform a 300WM, it was simply a question about whether there is a real world difference between magnums and non magnums.:cool:
I agree with Bartells answer... there is a difference at long range... whether you consider this a real world difference depends on your world.:confused:
Do you need an extra 100 yards or 200 foot pounds in your world? If so... get yourself a magnum and have at it.:)
 
todbartell said:
Dump Junky, put an X bullet in 7mm and it will out penetrate a 300 with a standard softpoint

bullet construction is more important than energy and bullet weight, within reason

the belted magnums (and WSMs) make hits easier past 250 yards, due to less bullet drop.

I do not own a 'magnum' cartridge anymore :)
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hahahaha Tod that made my Day :D ;) :cool:
so funny i love it Dump-junky has a good ring to it :D:p
ttyal
Riley
 
BIGREDD said:
I try to ignore ####-jockey for the most part but that post is quite ludicrous.:rolleyes:
The question was not about whether a 7mm will out perform a 300WM, it was simply a question about whether there is a real world difference between magnums and non magnums.:cool:
I agree with Bartells answer... there is a difference at long range... whether you consider this a real world difference depends on your world.:confused:
Do you need an extra 100 yards or 200 foot pounds in your world? If so... get yourself a magnum and have at it.:)
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Isn’t that the difference is between the mags and non-mags??? Penetration and what makes a bigger hole??? So then what would you say out performs the other??? The one that makes a bigger hole and will penetrates better, shoots faster and hits harder!!!! The magnum will do that in spades, if that isn't it then i guess a 50 BMG is no better then a 223 at in terms of performance ;) put that one in your pipe and smoke it;)
ttyal
Riley

Ps I like your name too :D I think its funny as hell :)
 
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Some days I think we would be all better off if the magnum moniker was dropped all together. There will be those who argue the point, but high velocity only extends range, it doesn't increase killing power, at least not within our current velocity limitations. A .300 magnum will not kill a deer any deader than a .308 or .30-06 - but under the right conditions it might do it a bit further away, or under some circumstances make up for a shooter's miscalculation of range and cleanly take that deer at 275 when he thought it was "just a little over 200". The only sure way of increasing power so that you can be sure of taking game over 1000 pounds cleanly is by making a bigger - deeper hole which requires a larger heavier bullet - not a faster one.

If you examine the cartridges designed to take the biggest game in the world, you will see that the velocity is often around 2150 fps, and seldom over 2400 fps. Cartridges of this class which have velocities over 2500 fps coincidentally also have reputations as wounders, simply because the bullets won't perform properly at the higher velocities.

Proper bullet selection for the intended game, and proper velocity for the intended terrain is always the key.
 
Dj, a magnum cartridge is one that, for a given calibre, will hold more powder than the "standard" load for that calibre. Penetration and bigger holes are the result of bullet design and larger calibre. A .300 Win Mag is a magnum because it will hold more powder than a 30-06. What you get with a magnum is increased velocity. A .300 will throw a 180 grain bullet faster than a 30-06 will throw the same bullet. That gives you a flatter trajectory and a bit more downrange energy, extending your range. That's all a magnum really is. A .22 Winchester rimfire magnum will not outperform a 22 Hornet, and no one would call the Hornet a magnum. The .22 WRF will outperform a .22 LR, and that's what makes it a magnum.

Sharptail
 
Thanks

Thanks, looks like the majority doesn't buy into the whole magnum bit. That's what I thought too. Especially MegaUltraShortShort Magnum. Like a brass disc full of powder with a 7mm bullet sticking out of it, you press it into the breech of your canon and close the door. I'm returning a defective rimfire 22 this week, and it will likely be my last. Not as keen on rimfire anymore for some reason. Quality seems to have slid in the last 20 years too. :mad: I'll probably go 308 or 30-06 next rifle. :)
 
i was out shooting last weekend and we were shooting a bock of wood the 7mm rem mag didn’t penetrate through it the 300 win did.... there is a huge difference right there you hit bone with the 7mm it may not do the best of jobs.
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I too found this very amusing,since it proves absolutely nothing.As others have stated,bullet selection is far more important than the cartridge for penetrating materials like wood.
 
stubblejumper said:
I too found this very amusing,since it proves absolutely nothing.As others have stated,bullet selection is far more important than the cartridge for penetrating materials like wood.
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the bullets used for the 300 win mag 180 gr power points and for the 7mm rem mag 175 gr power points (we were doing a test to see the diffrence, so we wonted the closest match we could) pluss it was the cheepest stuff out there and the 300 win mag out preformed a 7mm rem mag in turms of damage and penitration.
a 300 win mag will pentrate more and do more damage then a 30/06 even if you have the load worked up for it. so the cartridge realy is as important then the bullet.
ttyal
Riley
 
Ill chop firewood against your 300 mag power points anyday

my saw will be either a 260 with 140 XLCs or a 30-06 with 168 triple shocks

:)

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