Magnums and real world range and power.

Well, I own Magnums, and I own non-magnums, and as far as I'm concerned, the magnum has an advantage only in fairly specialized circumstances. The Magnum does shoot somewhat flatter than it's standard counterpart, but not as much as some seem to believe. The magnums also arrive at distant targets with a bit more oomph. An interesting fact is that some factory loaded Magnums are a bit on the "soft" side, velocity wise. Death-Junky mentioned the "tremendous" difference between the 7mm Mag and the 300 Win Mag. :rolleyes: FWIW, The 175 grain 7mm has better sectional density than does a 30 cal 180 bullet, so if construction is similar, the penetration advantage lies with the 7mm. I will share an interesting revelation to those who care to listen. I took some factory ammo to chronograph for a couple of friends who wanted to know what the factory ammo was doing in their guns. One rifle was a 300 Win Mag, a Krico [fine rifle, and very accurate], the other a 30-06, a 22" barrelled M70 Winchester.[also quite accurate] To avoid reflecting negatively on any manufacturer, I will refrain from saying what ammo was used. Suffice to say that in both cases, it was popular, factory ammo loaded with 180 grain PSP type bullets, not any light magnum stuff. Imagine our surprise to find the 30-06 ammo clocking 2756 fps average for 5 shots across the chronograph. Pretty impressive for the old warrior! Also imagine our chagrin to find the 300 Win Mag doing 2822 avg for 5. :eek: Quite wimpy for a 300 Mag, and certainly not enough difference between those two loads to give any practical advantage to the 300. I know, I know. If you handload, the 300 Win has a 300+ ft second advantage over the '06. I don't want anyone sending me a three page, single spaced letter lecturing me on my lack of acuity on these facts! ;) :D But what I'm saying is that sometimes we see some guy in the field with his magnum, imagining he is packing the hammer of Thor, when in fact, if he is using factory ammo, he may be in the same category as his partner packing the non-magnum. I have seen similar scenarios between the 7mm Rem Mag and the 280 Remington using 175 grain bullets. Some factory ammo is up to snuff, of course, but you'll never know for sure unless you either chronograph it or shoot it out to 4 or 500 yards on paper to calculate actual drop. If you know your magnum's velocity is at it's true potential, and you have a need for the extra power and subsequent flatter trajectory, go for it, but the majority of hunters would not be seriously handicapped if they shot standard chamberings and got to know them well. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Is this turning into a wood block defence thread?

EE: I've chronographed factory 150gr 7mm RM loads at just over 2800fps.
 
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A 30-30 can kill out to absurd ranges, if you you know how high to point it up into the stratosphere and have zero wind, etc. The Magnum question pertains to flatter trajectory at added range. And... more punch at those extended distances.
I'm waiting to get that Leup VXIII from tod to put on my Tikka M695 in 300WM and then we'll see what it can do. Or, more correctly, we'll see what I can do...
 
'phib' I guess you are correct, and I repent in sackcloth and ashes for my radical statements!! ;) ;) :D
1899; Interesting you mention the "soft" 7 Mag load. I had some 7mm Mag 175's that barely broke 2600, and some 175 gr 7x57 ammo loaded in Europe that made 2585. :confused: Makes a person laugh when you compare the two cases, side by side. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Here is another example:

Factory Federal loads

.300 WM, 200gr Trophy Bonded - muzzle velocity 2700fps
zero @ 200 yards
-8.9" @ 300 yards

.308 Win 165gr TSX muzzle velocity 2700fps
zero @ 200 yards
-8.3" @ 300 yards

.30-06 165gr TSX muzzle velocity 2800fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.6" @ 300 yards

.308 Win 150gr TSX muzzle velocity 2820fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.9" @ 300 yards

.300 Win Mag 180gr Partition muzzle velocity 2960fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.4" @ 300 yards


A deer, or elk or moose hit behind the shoulder at 300 yards won't know the difference between any of these bullets, and the trajectories are nearly identical. More to it than just saying "magnum".
 
1899 said:
Here is another example:

Factory Federal loads

.300 WM, 200gr Trophy Bonded - muzzle velocity 2700fps
zero @ 200 yards
-8.9" @ 300 yards

.308 Win 165gr TSX muzzle velocity 2700fps
zero @ 200 yards
-8.3" @ 300 yards

.30-06 165gr TSX muzzle velocity 2800fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.6" @ 300 yards

.308 Win 150gr TSX muzzle velocity 2820fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.9" @ 300 yards

.300 Win Mag 180gr Partition muzzle velocity 2960fps
zero @ 200 yards
-7.4" @ 300 yards


A deer, or elk or moose hit behind the shoulder at 300 yards won't know the difference between any of these bullets, and the trajectories are nearly identical. More to it than just saying "magnum".

This ballistic mumbo-jumbo is all new to me Kristian, but comparing say the 150 gr. out of the .308 and the 200 gr out of the 300 WM, while they leave the muzzle at close velocities and have similar trajectory, isn't the .300 WM 200 gr bullet going to have quite a bit more energy to burn at 300 yds vs. the .308 150 grainer? Granted, the deer won't know the difference as you say :) .
 
ILoveBigRacks said:
This ballistic mumbo-jumbo is all new to me Kristian, but comparing say the 150 gr. out of the .308 and the 200 gr out of the 300 WM, while they leave the muzzle at close velocities and have similar trajectory, isn't the .300 WM 200 gr bullet going to have quite a bit more energy to burn at 300 yds vs. the .308 150 grainer? Granted, the deer won't know the difference as you say :) .

Jerry, they are all pretty close because some have better ballistic coefficients than others. It's just illustrative of the posssibilities. Just because one guy has a magnum doesn't mean he has any real advantage in the field. There are many more factors to consider.
 
FWIW, some of the Hi Energy factory ammo isnt all that fast either. great if you have no chronograph though, and go by what is printed on the box :)

30-06 Federal HE 165 Bear CLaws - 2800 fps avg / 24" barrel (claimed 3000 fps)

375 H&H Federal HE 300 Bear Claws - 2600 fps avg / 24" barrel
(claimed 2700 fps)

oh and 7mm Rem Mag Federal Premium 160 gr. Noslers (very popular factory cartridge in 7mm) did 2850 fps avg out of two 26" barrel 7mm's! (rated @ 2950 fps).

:rolleyes:
 
there's wooden animals...

That test is only valid if you intend to hunt trees or wooden animals
Might be good if you're going to kill a rocking horse though. Or a trojan horse. Or one of those bears the guys carve with chainsaws at the out doors shows.
See, there's lots of wooden animals!
 
abbaswede said:
Might be good if you're going to kill a rocking horse though. Or a trojan horse. Or one of those bears the guys carve with chainsaws at the out doors shows.
See, there's lots of wooden animals!
ROTFLMAO hahahaha oh god hahahah that is great hahahaha you made my day, 2 days were made on this thred :D hahahah
the wooden animals will rise again and take control, if we don't have our magnums who will save us :D :rolleyes::cool: :p
ttyal
Riley
 
I find many hunters that hunt with magnums have the "mine is bigger than yours" attitude. Out where I hunt, there's a gang of "we are better than you" brothers that all hunt whitetails with the big magnums. Yet our area is all thick bush and the longest shot your gonna make is MAX 100yds.

Why would they buy magnums for this? "cause mine is bigger than yours".

We all hunt with shotguns, 44mag rifles and SOMETIMES a 30-06 and our deer are just as dead as theirs (when they actually get one).

I'm not saying all magnum hunters are like this, but I am only counting my experience with the "we are better than you" brothers.
 
I too have encountered the Magnumattude in some people. I know of a group who run 300 wm's becuase they "need to take 400 yd shots", they took three shots @ or near these ranges last year and wounded three deer. Turns out even magnums don't alter the results of bad shot placement.
 
Reminds me of an incident I witnessed about 25 years ago at one of my favorite moose hunting areas. I walked in in time to see a joker cut loose at a Bull about 800 yards away. He was packing a 7mm Rem Mag. After 4-5 shots with no visible results I accosted him with a question "What in the hell do you think you are doing?" His reply was: "I'm shooting at that moose across the slash" I then asked him: "Do you have any idea how far away that moose is?" His comeback: "Doesn't matter, that is what owning a magnum is all about, being able to shoot game far away." I gave him a piece of my mind, but got the distinct impression that it fell on deaf ears simply because :"mine is bigger than yours", and "I can do things impossible for you." LOL Regards, Eagleye.
 
Here's another good one: About the same time ago. I had a conversation with a client about the hunting season, knowing him to be a hunter. He informed me as to how he shot his moose at 850 yards with one shot from his 300 Weatherby Magnum. I asked him: Tell me Louis, How high did you have to hold to hit your moose at 850 yards", [hoping to elicit some wild a**ed guess out of him] The answer I got almost had me rolling on the floor. :D He said: "I sight this puppy in to hit dead on at 300 yards, The 300 Weatherby shoots so flat that you don't need to hold over out to 900 yards." I eventually did get to see where he had shot his moose....not an inch over 375 yards, either!! Decent shot, no doubt, but 850 yards???? I have matured a lot over the years, when some wingnut tries to tell me about his long-range exploits, I just nod my head and smile. Good entertainment, but the truth is not in them. Regards, Eagleye.
 
i only have limited expierience with magnum rounds so bear with me and if i make an incorect statment please correct me
having said that
i currently own and use both a 308 and a 303 british for hunting
and i have found that the terain that i hunt and the animals that i hunt for the 308 and 303 is more then plenty of gun for me as my shots are all under 100 yrds and both calibres have enough accuracy and dropping power on impact at that distance to satisfy my needs now if i was going for 300+ yrds for elk grizzly etc magnums would defintly be what i would be looking at. now on the other end at the range for punching paper under 100 yrds its pretty much up too personal comfort anything past 100 yrds and you rule out the 303 british or at least mine, i have found my 308 is good to 300-400 yrds on a calm day. now if your looking for sub-MOA groups on any given day out past 200 yrds again your probebly better off with the magnum
so it really all depends on a) what your useing it for and what kind of conditions you will be useing it in

oh and eagle eye
i once shot a gopher from 600 yrds open sites with 22lr but because the impact disintegrated the gopher when i got there to take a hpoto there was nothing left but a hole in the ground
jus kidding with you :D
 
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I have owned a 300 win mag and I own a 30-06. I have killed deer and elk with both calibers and I came to the conclusion the extra recoil of the 300 win mag was not worth it so I sold the 300. As far as penetration goes I noticed little difference in the bullets recovered. Just for hellery these are the loads I was using:
300 Win Mag- 180 gr Sierra SPBT, 71 Gr IMR 4831 CCI Magnim Primers
30-06- 165 GR Sierra SPBT, 49 Gr 4895 CCI Large Rigle Primers

I am trying to swithch to Nozler Partitions in my 30-06 but accuracy is a bit of a problem.

I think it should be said, or maybe it already has and I missed the post, that most factory ammunition is just not the same as hand loaded ammunition because the factory ammunition is intentially down doaded by the factory as it has to fit into guns which are of inferior quality or factors such as headspace in some guns has been compromized. It is a liability issue with the manufacturer of factory ammunition.
 
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