Magpul Art of the Dynamic Handgun

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I will.

Situation #1: If you've just chambered a cartridge and the slide is out-of-battery because the just-chambered cartridge jumped into the chamber ahead of the extractor, a slap to the back of the slide will remedy the situation. Quick and simple. (I.E. : The extractor does not engage the case rim. A simple tap/rack would only result in a doublefeed. While you could remove the magazine/rack/replace the magazine/rack/bang, all you really had to do was to slap the back of the slide.)

Situation #2: If you are doing a chamber-check. The last step of a chamber-check is a slap to the back of the slide (to ensure that the slide is in-battery).

If you're chambering a round and its not during a shoot, there is no need to save time by slapping the rear of the slide. Eject the cartridge in question and inspect the system before carrying it. If the slide fails to go into battery during a shoot your IA will take over. If the IA fails then remedial action will solve the issue. Forcing an unknown round/debris into the chamber under the belief it is a round that has jumped the extractor is bad form.

Chamber checking is unnecessary and can be accomplished by use of a loaded chamber indicator, the good ones include a tactile portion that protrudes when a round is chambered. The use of witness holes in the magazine is also a sound method of ensuring a round is chambered. You could slap the rear of the slide but have you done that on a pistol with exposed hammer? Do you aim for the side of slide or just eat the hammer in the palm of the hand?? Another issue with the use of slapping the slide. How does one perform such action when firing one handed as if one were wounded or otherwise without the use of the support hand??

Cycling the slide and allowing full compression of the recoil spring will ensure your pistol chambers a round in full battery. This action is what one relies upon during operation of the pistol, so a slap to the rear is not necessary.

How about the other "methods" taught my Magpul???

TDC
 
With regards to Dynamic handgun, can anyone validate the 45' degree mag slap as an effective method of loading your handgun??? Does sweeping the brass from the pistol(stovepipe/type two stoppage) accomplish anything a TAP RACK does not? Anyone ever punch the back of the slide with an exposed hammer as a method of FORCING an unknown round or object into the chamber??

All three of these techniques work and I believe are faster than Tap-Rack. I have seen multiple instances of shooters trying to clear a double feed with tap-rack. Observation of the problem would have lead to a faster remedy.

If TDC buys the ammo, I can get a squad of shooters to put all these manipulations on the clock. We can spreadsheet it and publish an investigative paper in SWAT magazine! :D 4 cases of 9mm Winclean should be enough :dancingbanana: :eek:

Use what you feel works best, I think the Magpul guys offer some really great training in an entertaining format. I'd love to have a stack of those bunny targets!!
 
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I slide slap after press checking following an admin load.

What make/model is there an exposed hammer?

All three of these techniques work and I believe are faster than Tap-Rack. I have seen multiple instances of shooters trying to clear a double feed with tap-rack. Observation of the problem would have lead to a faster remedy.

If TDC buys the ammo, I can get a squad of shooters to put all these manipulations on the clock. We can spreadsheet it and publish an investigative paper in SWAT magazine! :D 4 cases of 9mm Winclean should be enough :dancingbanana: :eek:

Use what you feel works best, I think the Magpul guys offer some really great training in an entertaining format. I'd love to have a stack of those bunny targets!!

An IA of TAP RACK is NOT a remedy for a double feed. TAP RACK is an IMMEDIATE ACTION which requires no further input or diagnosis before being executed, hence immediate. If your IA fails to solve the issue then remedial action is required, unload and reload the pistol. I have no doubt that someone attempting to solve a double feed with TAP RACK will fail and undoubtably require more time to solve it. Its the WRONG MOVEMENT. The failure is in the shooters training, not the methods.

Remember, faster doesn't mean more effective and if a method isn't effective what's the point in using it?? Observing the chamber doesn't work in the dark so its effective for half the day. Observing the chamber then deciding on a course of action requires cognitive thought which is tough to do while under stress. Observing the chamber and deciding what the problem is and what the appropriate action is also introduces Hick's Law which increases the time required to solve the problem, exponentially based on the number of options available.

The solution is simple.

Immediate Action Remedial Action
(TAP RACK) (UNLOAD, RELOAD)

Unseated magazines Double feed
Bad primer/hard primer
Stovepipes
Out of battery slide
Bad magazines(stuck follower)

Start with the IA, if two attempts don't solve the problem move on to the remedial action. Thats it, no need to complicate the process with additional diagnosis prior to executing a solution. Methods work for both left and right handed users. Methods work in the dark, on all makes and models, and are doable for single handed use.

Most type 1 stoppages(failure to fire) are attributed to unseated magazines. Observing the chamber solves nothing, executing an IA solves all of the potential problems listed above(even in the dark!) with the exception of stuck followers, it may not solve this problem. However, if an IA does not render the pistol operational you be sure of your next course of action. UNLOAD, RELOAD. The issue is one of the three, no ammo, bad magazine, or broken gun. By reloading(with the required unload/magazine dump prior to) you will be solving two of the possible three causes listed above. If a fresh magazine does not solve the problem, its a broken gun and there is no solution for that situation. Without much cognitive thought required, one can diagnose and potentially solve all problems associated with a semi auto pistol with only two drills. The IA solves most and what it cannot solve the Remedial Action covers the rest.

As for Magpul. They don't offer training on the videos. Videos are not training. As for entertaining, who cares. You're supposed to learn something not get all warm and fuzzy with camera work and witty comments. Then again, videos aren't training so I guess being entertaining is acceptable.

TDC
 
+1000

Also in the dark you rack 3 times. They did not came with that number for nothing. Back in battery in the dark? How are you suppose to know?

You press the trigger and nothing... And now what?

Tap, rack, bang! ;)

I agree, in the dark your manual of arms better be second nature. There is no reliable light source or definitive information for diagnosing the issue. IA first then Remedial.

Thanks for the support. A good debate is always fun and informative but I have to ask. Why are there so few willing to pick a side and standup for it? I seem to argue with the same folks(thanks guys!).

TDC
 
I agree, in the dark your manual of arms better be second nature. There is no reliable light source or definitive information for diagnosing the issue. IA first then Remedial.

Thanks for the support. A good debate is always fun and informative but I have to ask. Why are there so few willing to pick a side and standup for it? I seem to argue with the same folks(thanks guys!).

TDC

Because most people recognize that they don't have sufficient experience to know which problems arise with which method. If I hadn't seen a lot of mag problems, and maybe 1 OOB issue, ever, I'd probably agree with you on your arcane "pull the mag out and count the bullets" approach.

But I have seen lots of mag seat issues and very, very few of the other, so I know what's ACTUALLY a problem, and what not.

It's very easy to say, "in theory, this should be the biggest problem with X, therefore you should use a method which does not incorporate that step."

That is the kind of thinking which created the Wankel rotary engine. In theory, yes, it's much better than a piston engine. In practise, they blow oil seals every 45 minutes and it turns out 99% of manufacturers have stayed with the piston engine because although it has some problems, it actually addresses real world problems better than the theoretical alternative.
 
Because most people recognize that they don't have sufficient experience to know which problems arise with which method. If I hadn't seen a lot of mag problems, and maybe 1 OOB issue, ever, I'd probably agree with you on your arcane "pull the mag out and count the bullets" approach.

But I have seen lots of mag seat issues and very, very few of the other, so I know what's ACTUALLY a problem, and what not.

It's very easy to say, "in theory, this should be the biggest problem with X, therefore you should use a method which does not incorporate that step."

That is the kind of thinking which created the Wankel rotary engine. In theory, yes, it's much better than a piston engine. In practise, they blow oil seals every 45 minutes and it turns out 99% of manufacturers have stayed with the piston engine because although it has some problems, it actually addresses real world problems better than the theoretical alternative.

You still don't see the advantage to using the magazine over the slide. Messing with the slide can induce a type 1 stoppage. Messing with the magazine can induce the same stoppage AFTER you've fired the first shot, which as mentioned may be the most important. Reinserting the magazine and tugging on it has no potential for causing failure. Riding the slide during a press check can. Personally, I only use the magazine method for my rifles. I prefer the tactile check of the LCI over either, as it works in the dark and requires zero finger f*cking of the firearm.

TDC
 
I understand what you are getting at. I just do not agree on what is most likely to cause issues.

But your argument is essentially "ensuring the magazine is seated means that you will not have issues from an improperly seated mag, whereas you can have out-of-battery problems from manipulating the slide."

Well, ensuring the gun is in battery is no harder than ensuring the mag is seated.
 
I understand what you are getting at. I just do not agree on what is most likely to cause issues.

But your argument is essentially "ensuring the magazine is seated means that you will not have issues from an improperly seated mag, whereas you can have out-of-battery problems from manipulating the slide."

Well, ensuring the gun is in battery is no harder than ensuring the mag is seated.

Ensuring the slide is in battery is not a difficult task I agree. Manipulating the slide in a fashion that is not conducive to normal operation is the issue. If you load your pistol properly and are not confident the slide is in battery, you need to repair or replace to the pistol. Gently cycling the slide OUT of battery to ensure a round has chambered is flirting with a failure. Removing and checking the magazine has no effect on the operation of the pistol.

The press check is completely unnecessary, no one press checks during a stage at a match/gunfight. You reload and continue shooting under the pretense that the firearm will function properly when a magazine is inserted properly, and the action charged. Why or how one believes the functionality/reliability of the firearm changes when doing an admin load is beyond me.

TDC

ETA: In remembrance, Lest we forget...:canadaFlag:
 
Ensuring the slide is in battery is not a difficult task I agree. Manipulating the slide in a fashion that is not conducive to normal operation is the issue. If you load your pistol properly and are not confident the slide is in battery, you need to repair or replace to the pistol. Gently cycling the slide OUT of battery to ensure a round has chambered is flirting with a failure. Removing and checking the magazine has no effect on the operation of the pistol.

The press check is completely unnecessary, no one press checks during a stage at a match/gunfight. You reload and continue shooting under the pretense that the firearm will function properly when a magazine is inserted properly, and the action charged. Why or how one believes the functionality/reliability of the firearm changes when doing an admin load is beyond me.

TDC

ETA: In remembrance, Lest we forget...:canadaFlag:

No you dont do a press check at a gunfight, you press check much before that part happens. I guess the boys instructing our boys to press check at Blackwater are wrong...

It's all tools in the tool box.
 
No you dont do a press check at a gunfight, you press check much before that part happens. I guess the boys instructing our boys to press check at Blackwater are wrong...

It's all tools in the tool box.

Just because its taught at a big name school doesn't necessarily mean its effective or efficient. The Israeli's still preach carrying a pistol unchambered:rolleyes:

TDC
 
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Just because its taught at a big name school doesn't necessarily mean its effective or efficient. The Israeli's still preach carrying a pistol unchambered:rolleyes:

TDC

Actually these days yes it does, because the guys teaching now, have a lot of hands on in the field experience unlike you, oh and those Israeli's have years of real experience do the chamber load as well so something must be working for them if they are still doing it.
 
Actually these days yes it does, because the guys teaching now, have a lot of hands on in the field experience unlike you, oh and those Israeli's have years of real experience do the chamber load as well so something must be working for them if they are still doing it.

So I guess we should all be looping the slings of our rifles around our arms and blading our bodies? Perhaps we should stick with the Weaver or Chapman stances as well.:rolleyes:

If you want to blindly follow the "experts" be my guest. I prefer to think for myself and validate a method through rational thought and logic.

TDC
 
If you want to blindly follow the "experts" be my guest. I prefer to think for myself and validate a method through rational thought and logic.

TDC

to bad you don't have the experience to back it up.... it must be hard to get up in the morning and be such a badass web warrior.
 
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