make your own soft point

I believe it is the Hauge (sp) Convention not the Geneva Convention that covers the use of expanding bullets. Tath said the .303 Br. had a offset core in it at one time that caused the bullet to turn over while rotating in flight shich caused the same thing. .223's are supposed to be unstable when they strike causing much the same wound. Seems to me it is rather an odd stipulation given you can pour napalm on your enemy and fry him but soft point bullets are outlawed. Seems to me there is just a bit of a double standard here.

Stay Safe
 
snowhunter said:
Lots of myth here. The fact is that ten of tousands of fmj military have, safely, been converted to soft point bullets by individuals who wanted to make "their own" soft point bullets by cutting the tip off or cutting a "cross" at the bullet tip.

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No myth here.

The fact that it has been done (and, yes, I *have* done it) DOes not make it safe. The fact that zillions of drunk drivers made thier way home without crashing doesn't make the practice of drunken driving *safe.*

And when you cut the tip off, or cut a cross on the bullet, you are NOT making soft points. You are simply trying like hell to make a bullet perform in a way it was not designed to do.
 
cheeko said:
can you cut a full metal jacket on the tip and use it for hunting as a soft tip round?

always wondered. Military rounds are cheap. Always wanted to know.


cheeko
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NOT that I would do it,,,but
If there were a failure rate of any noteability then I guess all soft point non-bondeds are out;ie hornady.
 
Canuck44 said:
Seems to me it is rather an odd stipulation given you can pour napalm on your enemy and fry him but soft point bullets are outlawed. Seems to me there is just a bit of a double standard here.

Stay Safe
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Using soft points,killed that only took out one man...FMJ's took out the man,plus two of his buddies to carry him to safety
 
The .303 British, military fmj bullet has an inside aluminum tip, in front of the lead, to make it unstable and tumble during this particular bullets terminal ballisticks on human tissue in order for it to creat servere or fatal wounds.

I cannot in any way see how exposing any of that aluminum by filing or cutting a cross on this 303 British fmj bullet with aluminum tip can in any way endanger the gun or the shooter, more than for example using aluminum tipped Winchester Sivertips ?

However, I can imagine if the tip of a non-bonded fmj bullet is cut to far back on the bullet that it might create a seperation problem between the jacket and the lead, especially in military chambers with generous freebore were the jacket will get stuck when hitting the rifling, and the lead bullet core continuing through the bore.

Just exposing a tiny bit of the fmj bullets lead by some gentle filing on top of the bullet tip, or cutting a small cross at the fmj bullets tip will not, in my experience, seperate the jacket from the lead when firing, since, among other things, the curved rifling will force the bullets jacket into the core lead bullet and thus "lock" the jacket and the lead together.
 
snowhunter said:
The .303 British, military fmj bullet has an inside aluminum tip, in front of the lead, to make it unstable and tumble during this particular bullets terminal ballisticks on human tissue in order for it to creat servere or fatal wounds.

I cannot in any way see how exposing any of that aluminum by filing or cutting a cross on this 303 British fmj bullet with aluminum tip can in any way endanger the gun or the shooter, more than for example using aluminum tipped Winchester Sivertips ?

However, I can imagine if the tip of a non-bonded fmj bullet is cut to far back on the bullet that it might create a seperation problem between the jacket and the lead, especially in military chambers with generous freebore were the jacket will get stuck when hitting the rifling, and the lead bullet core continuing through the bore.

Just exposing a tiny bit of the fmj bullets lead by some gentle filing on top of the bullet tip, or cutting a small cross at the fmj bullets tip will not, in my experience, seperate the jacket from the lead when firing, since, among other things, the curved rifling will force the bullets jacket into the core lead bullet and thus "lock" the jacket and the lead together.
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WOW thanks for clearing that up Snow...:rolleyes:

Hey if the rifling fails to "LOCK" the jacket to the core I am sure that air pressure in the barrel will keep it pushed in there... what about heat from the burning powder??? that must weld them jackets on like a fat kid on a smarty...:p
I am only guessing here... but my guess is your probably still working on that PHD in Physics.;)
 
i wouldn't do it. you can go to Wal-Mart and buy 308/303/ what ever for about 20$ a box and have good hunting rounds. why take the chance?
talk to ya all later
Riley
 
Wal-mart ? Did you see the documentary, "Wal-Mart, the high cost of low prices" ?

After seing that scarry documentary, I would rather taking the risk of using fmj bullet with a cross cut at the tip of the bullet, rather than buying "cheap" cartridges from Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart just got another heavy fine in the USA, total US $ 172 million for refusing its workers, free lunch time, as demanded by labor laws. Often, Wal-Mart also refuses to pay any overtime, and it is very, very difficult for women to get promoted at Wal-Mart etc etc.

Buy your bullets for more somewhere else, and save in your taxes, since Wal-Mart employees are so low paid that they need government and taxpayer support to work at Wal-Mart.
 
blindside said:
NOT that I would do it,,,but
If there were a failure rate of any noteability then I guess all soft point non-bondeds are out;ie hornady.
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Hornadys have a copper jacket on the base of the bullet. COmpletely different form what is being discussed.
 
Studying a recovered Barnes Partition bullet which have lead exposed at the bottom of the bullet, I noticed that the hot gun gas inside the barrel had boiled the lead a bit as the bullet traveled through the barrel.

The friction alone between tbe bullet and barrel would also bring some of the lead inside the jacketed bullet to a melting point ? Has anybody any idea how hot most bullet lead are be the time it exit the barrel ? I know for example that a .50 Browning heavy machinegun barrel can get so hot that it warp after a 3-5 second continuet burst.

Clearly, some of the lead inside of a fired bullet must be liquid by time it exit from a barrel ? Although, non bonded, recovered bullet often show sign of seperating from the jacket. Therefore, the heat created from the friction between the bullet and the barrel is not hot enough to create a bonded bullet. Which also means that a "home made" soft point bullet from fmj bullet will not melt apart, while travling inside the barrel.
 
snowhunter said:
Studying a recovered Barnes Partition bullet which have lead exposed at the bottom of the bullet, I noticed that the hot gun gas inside the barrel had boiled the lead a bit as the bullet traveled through the barrel.

The friction alone between tbe bullet and barrel would also bring some of the lead inside the jacketed bullet to a melting point ? Has anybody any idea how hot most bullet lead are be the time it exit the barrel ? I know for example that a .50 Browning heavy machinegun barrel can get so hot that it warp after a 3-5 second continuet burst.

Clearly, some of the lead inside of a fired bullet must be liquid by time it exit from a barrel ? Although, non bonded, recovered bullet often show sign of seperating from the jacket. Therefore, the heat created from the friction between the bullet and the barrel is not hot enough to create a bonded bullet. Which also means that a "home made" soft point bullet from fmj bullet will not melt apart, while travling inside the barrel.
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Nosler makes the Partition bullets. Barnes does not.
 
snowhunter said:
Studying a recovered Barnes Partition bullet which have lead exposed at the bottom of the bullet, I noticed that the hot gun gas inside the barrel had boiled the lead a bit as the bullet traveled through the barrel.

The friction alone between tbe bullet and barrel would also bring some of the lead inside the jacketed bullet to a melting point ? Has anybody any idea how hot most bullet lead are be the time it exit the barrel ? I know for example that a .50 Browning heavy machinegun barrel can get so hot that it warp after a 3-5 second continuet burst.

Clearly, some of the lead inside of a fired bullet must be liquid by time it exit from a barrel ? Although, non bonded, recovered bullet often show sign of seperating from the jacket. Therefore, the heat created from the friction between the bullet and the barrel is not hot enough to create a bonded bullet. Which also means that a "home made" soft point bullet from fmj bullet will not melt apart, while travling inside the barrel.
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The old saying.... "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull####"... comes to mind when I read this one:p
Boiled lead... Barnes Partitions... this is the best thread ever:D
 
You got me there, I was tired, had a long day exchanging Christmas gifts, between Kelowna and Penticton malls, later picking up visiting children and their families at Westbank Greyhound bus station and 11:30 pm Penticton airport, and then tried to relax writing in these fine pages while the women and children were talking in the background. Wanted to go out and do some shooting all day, but never had a chance. Sorry guys :)
 
Reading John Brownings biography, the sections covering his invention of his first machine gun with a gun gas actuated "flapper" at the muzzle (the origin or mother of all gas operated guns), I recall reading that when John Browning personally demonstrated that his new machine gun could continuosly fire 2000 rounds without malfunction, and John Browning only complain afterwards the succesful test was that the tail end of the lead bullets from the 2000, 45-70 bullets he fired at this particular demonstration started to melt, and the "flapper" would then throw back hot pieces of lead at his face !

From John Brownings experience, I can conclude that one has to fire continuosly a large amount bullets through a barrel, before parts of the lead bullets starts to melt while traveling inside the barrel.
 
I t has zero to do with lead "melting."

It has to do with a SOFT core and a HARDER jacket.

The gasses push against the base of the bullet with considerable force.

The softer lead is more malleable.

Teh malleable lead squishes through the harder copper jacket, since there is nothing to keep it contained. This uses much of the pressure that the gasses are exerting, so the harder copper jacket sticks int he bore.

The lead continues out.

Teh hard jacket stays in.

Teh next round hits a bore obstruction (the jacket)

What happens next depends on the rifle, the ammo, the pressures and how lucky you are today.
 
I have to be honest, this is the first I have heard about making a FMJ into a soft point. Doesn't sound like a thing to do or reccomend to anyone to do.

Bottom line, if the bullet reacts the way described in previous posts the result would be that accuracy would take a holiday. To walk ones ass off in a hunting scenareo and finally get a chance at an animals and risk using a bullet which may react in a way not conducive to humanely harvesting an animal is at best not a wise thing to do.
 
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