Making a barrel vice and wrench, what to do/not do?

Kelly Timoffee

Kelly Timoffee

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Wondering if folks have advice or things not to do making a barrel/action vice wrench tool?

Something a guy shouldn't bother undertaking?

Something universal? One rifle brand only? etc?
 
Barrel Vice. Has been a few threads about making them - start with 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" or 2" x 2" or so. Good bolts - 1/2" or 5/8" Grade 8 - fine thread. Install about an 1/8" spacer plate between and cross bore for inserts - want to have a bit of gap between top and bottom when tightened up on that insert. I have pulled and installed a few barrels with my "two bolt" one - I see Brownells and others sell 4 bolt or 6 bolt, but I do not understand how they make inserts long enough for that? I bored my barrel vice to 1 1/2" diameter - that is barely big enough for an insert for a P14 or M1917 - 1 3/4" bore would be better. Then I use 1 1/2" aluminum rod stock - cut to about 1 1/2" length - drill, and bore out on lathe to match contour of the barrel, then slit in a 80 tooth power carbide miter saw. Pretty much need an insert for each diameter and contour of barrel that you plan to grab. I found that rosin powder - like soft ball and baseball pitchers use, helps immensely. Also a wrap or two of ordinary computer printer paper around the barrel virtually ensures no marking on barrel at all, whether removing or installing a barrel. I have 5/8" Grade 8 Fine Thread bolts holding the two halves together - on some barrels, I have used 36" pipe on 18" strong-arm to snug up those bolts so that barrel does not slip in there.

Action Wrench. We built one - for a Rem 788 - was a lot of fussing to get exact fit, but worked fine. Since then, I have gone ahead and got the Brownell's system - pretty much a separate head or heads for each brand / size of receiver ring. Some can be used on more than one receiver, but not many! Have found that action wrenches do not need to be torqued together "gorilla" tight, in order to hold - nice and snug, rosin and paper are again a big plus to prevent marring.

Pretty much need a really solid attachment surface for the barrel vice. No clue about "most" sporting rifles, but I have lifted my feet off the floor on a 48" snipe trying to undo some WWI barrels - and I weigh 280, at least. So barrel vice holds barrel, action wrench holds action, turn action wrench to undo or attach. So also need to consider how you will see the aligning marks as the action torqued up into position. Also, need to figure out how you will be holding the separate recoil lugs - like on Rem 788 or Remington 700. Some of the Brownell heads had recesses for that, which may or may not fit the one that you are working on. Get a Parker Hale with the soldered on scope bases, and you will have to mill a clearance in a Mauser 98 head to accommodate that base - not easily going to come off there.

My experience only - there may be other or cheaper or easier ways to do it... I corresponded with a fellow trying to undo a Mauser barrel with one of those wooden block type vices - as far as I could tell, might work if you epoxied the barrel within the wood, and then chipped it off in pieces after job complete. I was very much "not impressed" with what he was struggling with!! I have seen Internet pictures and U-tube of guys grabbing barrel 4" or 6" away from receiver with their barrel vice, and then turning on the action wrench - can not help but wonder how they keep the barrel straight when doing that - I try to have the wrench and the vice very close together - just so I can see between to those marks.

I also have and have used an internal action wrench - long bolt like thing that goes into action from rear and has "spade" like lugs that engage in the bolt lug recesses. About 10" (?) or so long. I really have difficulty with it when a lot of undo force is required - I find it very hard to keep rear end of it axially aligned with the bore - do not want to twist or bend action as torque applied. Last time I used it, finally took the time to make an adjustable height "tower" that supported that outer rear end at same height as the bore, so that worked better. Very handy to spin in a receiver for a quick check on something when final "torque" not being applied.
 
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I guess to pull one barrel, I would say no. You will probably mung up that first one is some way, anyway. So probably dollars ahead to take to a gun smith with proper equipment. For me, that would be a 2 1/2 hour drive each way to nearest "city" and I do not know if there is a competent gunsmith operating there? Or mail it to a reputable operation. I am retired. I have a good sized workshop. I enjoy working on my guns. I have a lathe - turning inserts is a good learning task for me (tapered inside boring!!) I prefer to do tasks like this myself - fully prepared to repeat job multiple times to get it "right" or to have to replace things that I broke. Others prefer to pay someone else who might (hopefully does?) do it correctly. Too many stories, told in person to me by CGN members, of family rifles "ruined" by wannabe's claiming to be "gun smith". Did not have tooling, Did not have patience. And/or did not know how.
As far as pulling barrels - that is only the very start - typically need to set headspace, if pre-chambered. Or cut chamber if a barrel blank, after cutting threads. All very doable - but need correct tooling, appropriate patience and some knowledge.
 
Thanks for the kind words.

I made and sold a few vises of that pattern. All new materials. Stopped making them because the total for materials, postage (heavy!), and my time resulted in a higher cost than I thought was reasonable.
I hold the vise in a monster 150 lbs+ 6" vise. Make the bottom bar longer, and the vise can be bolted to a heavy workbench. A friend set up a permanent installation in his new shop. Welded a 12" square steel plate to a square steel tube, and then embedded the plate in a poured concrete floor. Flat plate on top for the vise. That sucker doesn't move.
I was using a power hacksaw, a good sized lathe, and a mill/drill for the holes.

There are different action wrenches. For putting most two-lug barrels ON, and internal wrench is excellent. It engages the lugways of the receiver up in the receiver ring.
An internal wrench will work for taking some barrels OFF.
If the barrel is really on there, an external wrench is probably going to be needed. A wrench might have a semicircular top, and a flat bottom, clamped together with two screws. Non-marring shims protect the finish. For flat sided receivers, two 1" square steel bars with a pair of clamping screws work well. I turned the end of one bar round, so that a pipe "cheater" can be used.
Some folks have made wrenches that are a close fit on the receiver ring. This is a demanding job that requires very careful fitting. I have only down this once.
Some barrels are real pigs to remove. A relief groove cut near the shoulder releases torque. Cut the barrel to protect the receiver. I broke down a scrapper No. 4 one time. Wanted to see just how firmly the barrel was in place. Clamped the receiver up in the wrench, and grabbed the barrel with a 3' pipe wrench. Remember, this was a scrapper. I was hanging on the end of the wrench when it let go with a bang. That is over 600 ft. lbs. of torque.

Receivers are more delicate than they appear to be. It is entirely possible to ruin one.
 
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As tiriaq says be prepared to make a relief cut just ahead of the reciever ring on a lot of old military barrels, i broke a 96 mauser action. Learned my lesson the hard way.
 
I have not worked on a Weatherby Vanguard, but from pictures on Internet, looks like a nice straight section of barrel to grab just ahead of receiver - easy enough to make an insert for barrel vice to fit - assuming that your Benchmark barrel has similar contour? Appears that the Vanguard does not have separate recoil lug, but no clue what the receiver ring looks like under the stock line - whether there is a flat under there like a Mauser or Win 70, or whether it is round like a Rem 788 or Rem 700? Makes a bit of difference in design of the external action wrench that you might use? As mentioned above by Tiriaq, an internal wrench might work, (assuming the Vanguard is a "standard" two lug front locking bolt) if you can figure out how to keep it axially aligned with the bore, while torquing on it...
 
I presume that the upper action shown with the barrel and trigger installed is a Vanguard? If so, this is what a Brownells receiver external wrench would look like:

IMG_3634.jpg

The part shown with the half moon cut-out is actually sized for a Small Ring Mauser, and they also list it to fit a No. 1 or No. 4 Lee Enfield, with an additional plate used on the straight handle part, if you were to try to reproduce. A bar would be needed with a half moon cut out that closely fit your actions diameter.

Your lower receiver looks a lot like a Remington 700 - if so, the Brownell's wrench uses two half moon blocks - one above and one below, with a hole drilled through one to install an action screw to resist turning - also has a recess milled to hold a Remington style recoil lug.
 

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The Howa receiver is classic round on top, flat on the bottom. A receiver wrench with appropriate jaws should work just fine.
A two lug internal might work, if the barrel is not too tight.
Just an additional comment about a relief cut in the barrel, just in front of the receiver - there are barrels which to not have a shoulder which torques against the front of the receiver. The barrel face torques against an internal receiver surface. 98 Mauser service rifles, some Lee Enfields are in this category. A relief cut won't help in these cases.
Can't emphasize enough - it is easy to do irreparable damage trying to remove barrels. Considerable force may be required, and the vise and wrench must fit properly.
One trick in rebarreling revolvers is to clamp the barrel and put a hammer handle through the frame. Might work. Might also twist the frame.
Rebarreling Luger pistols can be an adventure. Barrels are in tight. The receiver ring is small, has complex contours, and is quite delicate. A relief cut in the barrel shank can be really worthwhile.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:




I might be able to make jaws that fit on the bench vise to hold that action.
Click to expand...

No marring surface on one jaw, insert to fit the top of the receiver on the other - might work. Might also crush the receiver. A wrench as shown in potashminer's photo holds the receiver firmly, with less crushing risk.
 
Well I am going to order a vise, Viper 4 bolt.

I am going to make the wrench, now the big question.............

Do I use the regular bar stock or the 1018 tool steel?

Softer for better gripping or harder for durability?
 
Potashminer said:
I presume that the upper action shown with the barrel and trigger installed is a Vanguard? If so, this is what a Brownells receiver external wrench would look like:

View attachment 416575

The part shown with the half moon cut-out is actually sized for a Small Ring Mauser, and they also list it to fit a No. 1 or No. 4 Lee Enfield, with an additional plate used on the straight handle part, if you were to try to reproduce. A bar would be needed with a half moon cut out that closely fit your actions diameter.

Your lower receiver looks a lot like a Remington 700 - if so, the Brownell's wrench uses two half moon blocks - one above and one below, with a hole drilled through one to install an action screw to resist turning - also has a recess milled to hold a Remington style recoil lug.
Click to expand...

I will fashion a version of this, see above post with my question.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Well I am going to order a vise, Viper 4 bolt.

I am going to make the wrench, now the big question.............

Do I use the regular bar stock or the 1018 tool steel?

Softer for better gripping or harder for durability?
Click to expand...

1018 is mild steel. It worked just fine for my action wrench, which is similar to the Brownell's offering, but with the head rotated 90 degrees relative to the integral handle.
 
Potashminer said:
I presume that the upper action shown with the barrel and trigger installed is a Vanguard? If so, this is what a Brownells receiver external wrench would look like:

View attachment 416575

The part shown with the half moon cut-out is actually sized for a Small Ring Mauser, and they also list it to fit a No. 1 or No. 4 Lee Enfield, with an additional plate used on the straight handle part, if you were to try to reproduce. A bar would be needed with a half moon cut out that closely fit your actions diameter.

Your lower receiver looks a lot like a Remington 700 - if so, the Brownell's wrench uses two half moon blocks - one above and one below, with a hole drilled through one to install an action screw to resist turning - also has a recess milled to hold a Remington style recoil lug.
Click to expand...


Anyone wanting to make one of these should make two...

Set up the pieces in the 4 jaw chuck, drill and bore them simultaneously, and get two upper halves. Bore a good sized radius, then make aluminum or brass inserts to fit the top radius of different actions. Then two flat bottom halves. Clamp, drill and tap for bolts. Or, you can set studs in the flat half, and use nuts to secure the top half. The more flexibility in the design, the more different receivers can be gripped.
For Lee Enfields, drill a clearance hole for the lug on the bottom of the receiver ring, in the flat jaw.
The handle can be welded on as in the photo, or one end of the flat jaw can be extended and turned round for a pipe cheater.
 
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