Mannlicher M1903 in .257 Roberts

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Rossco12

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I recently purchased this nicely sporterized Greek Mannlicher from an older Austrian gunsmith friend of mine after he decided to selectively thin out his massive collection of long guns, most of which he built entirely himself on top of the action. Douglas barrel, German claw mounts which were machined to fit and a Hensoldt 3x scope. Unfortunately, no work has yet been done to the magazine or feed rails to facilitate smooth chambering of the .257 Roberts cartridge, so that will be up to me! I have a few ideas but any advice would be greatly appreciated, I DO NOT want to ruin this remarkable piece of craftsmanship.

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I had a 1903 in 6.5x54 MS and the challenge you will face is the fitted brass rotor in the magazine. It was perfectly sized for the "odd" sized 6.5 case. My rifle had a shot out barrel, and I considered re-boring or re-barreling it to another cartridge, but in the end sold it to a collector because the challenge of using any other case but the 6.5x54 was a bit too daunting for me. Perhaps you could find an original rotor made for the 7x57, which should serve the purpose. I wish you well with your project, that certainly is a rifle worth spending some significant effort and money on to make the magazine work.
 
...find an original rotor made for the 7x57, which should serve the purpose. I wish you well with your project, that certainly is a rifle worth spending some significant effort and money on to make the magazine work.
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Mannlicher-Schoenauers in .257 Roberts were made from 1951-1960 and the Model 1924 was chambered in 7x57. I don't know if any of those followers or brass rotors would work in a M1903. It is interesting that a gunsmith would put such a tremendous amount of work into a rifle and then leave it in an unusable state.

Also interesting is the 1907 designation. I am not familiar with it, although it looks like the 1903/05/08/10 models. Too be frank I'd be looking at rebarreling it to 6.5x54 and be done with it.
 
Thanks for the input. I finally found time to start tinkering with the rifle. Upon disassembly, I found that Heinz, the gunsmith, had done some modification to the feed rails and spool, just not quite enough. He likely had many, many nicer projects on the go.

I started with some lapping compound and a .257 Roberts case and simply worked it against each of the 5 sections of the magazine. I then filed down a few problem areas on the feed rails and it now feeds much better, although not quite as smoothly or reliably as I would like. I believe my next step is to smooth out the rounded 'cage' on which the cartridges ride around opposite the rotor, as they seem to intermittently bind slightly.

So far so good, looking forward to having it cycle 5 rounds nice and smooth.
 
Thanks! Did a little more filing and polishing today, gets better every time I reassemble it.

I now believe what's left of the problem to be the fact that the .257 Roberts casehead and base is .020" larger than that of the 6.5x54. Therefore, it is impossible for all 5 cartridges to sit flush in the rotor, there is a cumulative 1/10" which occasionally causes one of the cartridges, usually the 2nd or 3rd, to be elevated off the rotor and jam up between the rotor's 'fin' and the 'cage' surrounding. For this reason, I am tempted to simply remove all the fins where they contact the base/body of the cartridge, leaving only the neck support. The factory .270 Win Mannlicher sporters had a rotor designed in this fashion.
 
1899 said:
Mannlicher-Schoenauers in .257 Roberts were made from 1951-1960 and the Model 1924 was chambered in 7x57. I don't know if any of those followers or brass rotors would work in a M1903. It is interesting that a gunsmith would put such a tremendous amount of work into a rifle and then leave it in an unusable state.

Also interesting is the 1907 designation. I am not familiar with it, although it looks like the 1903/05/08/10 models. Too be frank I'd be looking at rebarreling it to 6.5x54 and be done with it.
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I agree! Why wouldn't you simply rechamber ANOTHER new Douglas barrel in 6.5x54. Incidentally the 257 bore is very close to 6.5 maybe your friend intended to keep the same case? Any way I think you are well on your way to doing what you were trying not to do and may well end with a fubar.
 
As clarified above, upon disassembly, I found the action and rotor to be heavily modified already. Not quite enough for the .257 Roberts, but I'm sure enough to never let a 6.5x54 round feed again. When I acquired this rifle, it was a battle to jam 3 cartridges into the magazine, let alone cycle them. Now I can easily load all 5 and run them through without a problem 8 times out of 10.

I would imagine if my friend intended to keep the 6.5 case, he wouldn't have chambered a 25 caliber barrel for .257 Roberts. I guess if I had a lathe or wasting money was something I got excited about, I would try getting it back to original calibre. Especially if the feed rails had been left alone before me.

Regarding 1899's mention of the 1907 designation earlier - I have also noticed a lack of documentation that these were ever produced as a 1907, perhaps just a small run?
 
Didn't someone buy the tooling for the MS spool magazine rifles in Europe and still makes them on a limited custom basis? You may be able to just buy a spool? Harold
 
I think there is still an active forum for MS owners and you may find someone with a similar conversion who can give you precise measurements on action rail width and spacing required to accommodate .257 Roberts cartridges. I think this will be the show stopper if you go too far....the measurements AND your cautious trial and error approach is the best way ahead for this conversion. Getting a premachined spool as Mbogo suggested would certainly be a big help
 
Yes, you are absolutely right. I am definitely done with the feed rails for now, until I have the right information. I've sent an email to the Mannlicher Collectors Association. I am at the point where it only takes a light pressure on the cartridge release tab to release them, so definitely approaching fubar territory. None escape though, even with rapid bolt cycling. The only way I can make it jam is by just inching the bolt forward extremely slow, until the cartridge "jumps" from the magazine into thr rails. It would be nice to have a factory rifle and ammo for comparison as to just how good it should get.

As you say, if I could just procure the right rotor... .257 or maybe even 7x57 as a start. Just have to keep looking.

Thanks,

Ross
 
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