I have been offered the opportunity to purchase a Mannlicher Schoenauer 1905. It shoots a 9x57. I know basically nothing about this firearm. It is beautiful. It handles better than my Browning x bolt that is 100 years newer. Does anyone have anything to share about this gun? It isn't cheap and i want to do my research before pulling the trigger.
Mannlicher Schoenauer 1905
- Thread starter JTucker
- Start date
JTucker,
I have a 1905 MS with double trigger; super accurate with handloads. Here is info. from my trial and error to get it up and running: I reformed brass from 8mm Mauser (8X57) brass by sizing in 9X56 CH 4D dies and trimming to length (2.207"). Dies were purchased from CH 4D and shipped from them to Canada. I cast my own bullets - Lyman mould 358 315, 200 grains, shot as cast but lubed in a .360 sizing die. My MS bore slugged at .360" but there is some belief that bore size varies widely amongst firearms. Web knowledge? Truth?? This info. if true, is really surprising since these firearms were made to very close tolerances. The only problem with my cast bullets is that the loaded rounds do not fit into the rotary magazine (bullets slightly too fat I think). The magazine is made to close tolerances to fit only MS factory ammunition. Somehow, my reloads look like factory rounds but are not exact enough to fit the magazine so, single shot only.
One other problem that I had was that R-P brass would not resize sufficiently to fit the chamber without making extraction quite difficult. Maybe the composition of Remington cartridge brass had too much "spring back", I don't know for sure but I spent a lot of time polishing the rifle chamber, running the brass through another die (444 Marlin), trying to shrink the lower portion of the brass, putting permanent marking on the brass and trying to determine the problem. I finally solved the problem by lightly polishing the lower sides of the brass being careful not to remove too much and weakening the brass. No problem with the brass after this initial doctoring although I have never fired full loads which may cause the brass to spring back again. When I formed brass using W-W Super brass no problem existed so I would recommend using Winchester brass if you can get it. I have only tried Unique for powder settling at 12 g. This is quite a light load (chrono 1388 fps) but at my age, I'm not a fan of heavy recoil. If you don't cast, you may be able to buy bullets from "jethunter" on this forum. He has a good reputation and is a reliable source (if he has what you want). For higher velocities, you could buy unlubed cast bullets and powder coat and size them slightly oversize to fit the bore. If I can be of any help, PM me.
Lorne (40-82)
I have a 1905 MS with double trigger; super accurate with handloads. Here is info. from my trial and error to get it up and running: I reformed brass from 8mm Mauser (8X57) brass by sizing in 9X56 CH 4D dies and trimming to length (2.207"). Dies were purchased from CH 4D and shipped from them to Canada. I cast my own bullets - Lyman mould 358 315, 200 grains, shot as cast but lubed in a .360 sizing die. My MS bore slugged at .360" but there is some belief that bore size varies widely amongst firearms. Web knowledge? Truth?? This info. if true, is really surprising since these firearms were made to very close tolerances. The only problem with my cast bullets is that the loaded rounds do not fit into the rotary magazine (bullets slightly too fat I think). The magazine is made to close tolerances to fit only MS factory ammunition. Somehow, my reloads look like factory rounds but are not exact enough to fit the magazine so, single shot only.
One other problem that I had was that R-P brass would not resize sufficiently to fit the chamber without making extraction quite difficult. Maybe the composition of Remington cartridge brass had too much "spring back", I don't know for sure but I spent a lot of time polishing the rifle chamber, running the brass through another die (444 Marlin), trying to shrink the lower portion of the brass, putting permanent marking on the brass and trying to determine the problem. I finally solved the problem by lightly polishing the lower sides of the brass being careful not to remove too much and weakening the brass. No problem with the brass after this initial doctoring although I have never fired full loads which may cause the brass to spring back again. When I formed brass using W-W Super brass no problem existed so I would recommend using Winchester brass if you can get it. I have only tried Unique for powder settling at 12 g. This is quite a light load (chrono 1388 fps) but at my age, I'm not a fan of heavy recoil. If you don't cast, you may be able to buy bullets from "jethunter" on this forum. He has a good reputation and is a reliable source (if he has what you want). For higher velocities, you could buy unlubed cast bullets and powder coat and size them slightly oversize to fit the bore. If I can be of any help, PM me.
Lorne (40-82)
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My ignorance is painfully evident now, it looks and feels like a carbine, but i don't know for sure.
40-82
I have no plans on casting my own ammunition if i purchase this gun.
I can afford but, but it means not going moose hunting with my Dad and not buying a crossbow.
I am weighing my options. The current owner has never shot the gun. I am not the type to own something and not use it, but it would still be a safe queen. I want it, but it is a luxury item, tough to justify when saving for retirement and your kids education.
40-82
I have no plans on casting my own ammunition if i purchase this gun.
I can afford but, but it means not going moose hunting with my Dad and not buying a crossbow.
I am weighing my options. The current owner has never shot the gun. I am not the type to own something and not use it, but it would still be a safe queen. I want it, but it is a luxury item, tough to justify when saving for retirement and your kids education.
gunrunner100
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- NW Ontario
Buy it. You won’t regret it.
I have a gunsmith friend who has several of these rifles. Very high quality even by German standards. Buy it you will not regret it. And then take it moose hunting as it was never made to be a safe queen. My friend shot a moose with one of his this year.
Never pass up an opportunity to go moose hunting with your Dad. A firearm is just an object, although a very fine object. A hunting trip with your Dad can never be replaced. The firearm can. You get to choose. Don't choose something you will later regret.
Lorne (40-82)
Lorne (40-82)
If it comes down to the difference between going out and doing something, or having something pretty sitting in the safe, then forget about the rifle and go moose hunting. Having interesting experiences is more important than accumulating inanimate objects.
If you don't handload, or are really good buddies with someone who does, you'll likely never fire it. Ammo hasn't been commonly available since before WWII.
^^^^What he said specially if you don't reload.^^^^
JT, the moose hunt with your dad should be the first priority. That is a given, however I believe you can do both.
If the rifle is in proper working order, and fits as well as you describe, it will be one of the best investments you ever make, both financially and personally.
The moose hunt with your dad will be enhanced by taking the rifle along, and perhaps giving him the chance to use the rifle on the moose.
As you have already read in this thread, ammunition for the 9X56 is easy to obtain with a proper die set, 8X57 brass, and there is no problem using regular .357-358 diameter bullets in these rifles.
I will be pleased to send you forty once-fired Winchester brass to reform, and I would not be surprised if there is an old 9X56 die set sitting in a drawer or on the back of a bench around here somewhere. If not, you can get a new set from CH4D for $100US plus postage.
The 9X56 easily gets a 250 gr bullet loafing along at more than 2300 fps with sensible pressures and long case life, and there isn't any outfit that will do much better on deer, moose, or bear out to 200 yards. Especially when they fit properly, these rifles swing and point like an extension of your arm. You may end up using it for most of your big game hunting.
Just take a few moments, very few, and think about what you can do to make it happen. There must be something you don't need in the coming year that you can pass up in order to get the Mannlicher Schoenauer, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and still go moose hunting with your dad.
Both you and your dad will enjoy the rifle and the experience for a long time. The cost of the hunt, the rifle, and the dies, will be pretty reasonable when considered over those years.
Best,
Ted
If the rifle is in proper working order, and fits as well as you describe, it will be one of the best investments you ever make, both financially and personally.
The moose hunt with your dad will be enhanced by taking the rifle along, and perhaps giving him the chance to use the rifle on the moose.
As you have already read in this thread, ammunition for the 9X56 is easy to obtain with a proper die set, 8X57 brass, and there is no problem using regular .357-358 diameter bullets in these rifles.
I will be pleased to send you forty once-fired Winchester brass to reform, and I would not be surprised if there is an old 9X56 die set sitting in a drawer or on the back of a bench around here somewhere. If not, you can get a new set from CH4D for $100US plus postage.
The 9X56 easily gets a 250 gr bullet loafing along at more than 2300 fps with sensible pressures and long case life, and there isn't any outfit that will do much better on deer, moose, or bear out to 200 yards. Especially when they fit properly, these rifles swing and point like an extension of your arm. You may end up using it for most of your big game hunting.
Just take a few moments, very few, and think about what you can do to make it happen. There must be something you don't need in the coming year that you can pass up in order to get the Mannlicher Schoenauer, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and still go moose hunting with your dad.
Both you and your dad will enjoy the rifle and the experience for a long time. The cost of the hunt, the rifle, and the dies, will be pretty reasonable when considered over those years.
Best,
Ted
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Ted, as usual, is not wrong.
Actually, I don't remember Ted ever being wrong.
Actually, I don't remember Ted ever being wrong.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I have an MS Mannlicher in 6.5x54. Wonderfully balanced rifle, amazingly easy to hunt with. Buy it, learn to use it and feed it. Take it moose hunting with your dad. It will add immeasurably to the experience. I own many rifles (MANY), and hunts are always better with a rifle that you are emotionally attached to. FWIW. - dan
