MARCH 8th m14 support group IMPORTANT UPDATE

PPPS: for all you new shorty owner wannabees stuck without a Marstar Gas Ring Front sight .... and I hear Marstar is out of them right now??? ... there is some light at the end of the shorty wannabee tunnel.

I personally don't like the GRFS design, even though up till now they were the only game in town for a shorty that wanted iron sights, either for backup or as the primary.

1.] I do NOT like the circle jerk site picture the round front sight hood gives ... but of course your personal mileage may vary. SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE ROUND FRONT SIGHT HOOD, and find it quick and easy to use. i am NOT one of these.

2.] I do NOT like the fact that tolerances on the GRFS design absolutely require a perfectly tight gas assembly, and a perfect fit between the gas plug and the GRFS. Otherwise, accuracy is measured NOT in minutes of angle. AND, every time you take the gas plug out to clean the gas assembly, you have to put everything back EXACTLY the same as it was. These GRFS can wobble a few degrees each way ... and that is NOT confidence inspiring.

3.] I absolutely HATE and DESPISE having to use that GRFS as the marker when attempting to index the shorty barrels. Without a couple of true flats to use, this relies on your eyeball ... and my eyeballs are 60 years old, and have been lazered.

SO,
I have come up with what I think is a better way ... and CHEAPER TOO!!!

I have designed a CLAMP on front sight base, which will slip on the chopped barrel, and clamp tightley with two screws across a wide split. The split has to be wide because the Norc barrels can vary in Diam over .010" at the cut off point, so some adjustment is necessary. The site base will take the original M-14 front sight, and VOLIA, there you have it ... cheap, simple, and theoretically more accurate than the GRFS design.

I have talked Joe Dlask into making me some of these ...
hopefully they will be available soon.

If you want one, contact Joe and say so. The more people who say they want one of these, the more likely we are to get them sooner rather than later.
[;{)
TTFN
LAZ
 
Laz wrote
See ya'll at the next gun show,
Victoria on April 20,
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, I plan on being in Nanaimo for one of ParkerHaleMike's Service Rifle practices on the Saturday before, so I'll stop by.
 
the barrels are being worked on as we speak....... should be ready tomorrow.... Laz's new sight won't be ready from Joe till later this summer.... he leaves for europe for several weeks (months) on wednesday mornin.
Once the barrels are ready, I'll call everyone and let them know they are ready. The shop will still be open for pick up but Joe himself will not be there after wednesday mornin. If you have questions or special instructions for joe, give him a call 604 527 9942.
 
45ACPKING said:
the barrels are being worked on as we speak....... should be ready tomorrow.... Laz's new sight won't be ready from Joe till later this summer.... he leaves for europe for several weeks (months) on wednesday mornin.
Once the barrels are ready, I'll call everyone and let them know they are ready. The shop will still be open for pick up but Joe himself will not be there after wednesday mornin. If you have questions or special instructions for joe, give him a call 604 527 9942.
Click to expand...

Hah, so you didn't beat our build after all:D Just kidding, all in good fun. Just technicalities. So long as everyone gets what they want and we spread the Norc M14 gospel:dancingbanana:
 
pics as promised
courtesy of 7.62NATO ;)

030808A.jpg

030808C.jpg

030808E.jpg

030808D.jpg
 
I remember now why the tables don't look as full as I remembered,we were busy stripping barrels down.Notice the parts and pieces.Enough,here's some more of my favorite banana's:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
 
Lazerus2000 said:
SO,
I have come up with what I think is a better way ... and CHEAPER TOO!!!

I have designed a CLAMP on front sight base, which will slip on the chopped barrel, and clamp tightley with two screws across a wide split. The split has to be wide because the Norc barrels can vary in Diam over .010" at the cut off point, so some adjustment is necessary. The site base will take the original M-14 front sight, and VOLIA, there you have it ... cheap, simple, and theoretically more accurate than the GRFS design.

[;{)
TTFN
LAZ
Click to expand...

Assumingly, this clamp on barrel sight base will be mounted just ahead of the gas cyl assembly (ie in between it and the flash suppressor, if one is screwed on).

This would then also require re-sighting in as well should the gas assembly be taken off for cleaning I assume? Or did you have plans to have a stake(with barrel mod to accomodate) to line it up each time?
 
Hey, crutchy here. Sorry, guys, I really wasn't happy with the few pics I took...for some reason I just put no thought into them at all and they are just lousy pics...real shame as it was a great event!

Anyway here's a couple of them, sorry about the really lousy quality, I am embarassed to post them and they don't do justice to the event itself which was great of course!

Also more rifles showed up after this so we are missing about 5 in these pics I think.

Anyway here are my poor photos.

m14s002uo8.jpg

m14s003zs4.jpg



Next time I will put a bit pf proper thought into the pics so we can have some good photos that we can all enjoy!
 
Winz,
there will be room to take off the gas plug without removing the front sight, but you are correct ... if you remove the entire gas assembly [ and the comp or flashider ] then you will theoreticaly have to resight the rifle again.

BUT,
if you remove the flashider and gas assembly on ANY M-14, I suspect you should resight again any how.

I am thinking of ONLY the gas plug removal when I say " resight after cleaning ]
 
Lazerus2000 said:
Winz,
there will be room to take off the gas plug without removing the front sight, but you are correct ... if you remove the entire gas assembly [ and the comp or flashider ] then you will theoreticaly have to resight the rifle again.

BUT,
if you remove the flashider and gas assembly on ANY M-14, I suspect you should resight again any how.

I am thinking of ONLY the gas plug removal when I say " resight after cleaning ]
Click to expand...

Yes, obviously you are correct that re-sighting should be done when such is done(except in the case of full length barrel users who may leave the flash suppressor/sight on and still move the gas assembly to clean out the gas hole on the barrel.)

It would be particularly true of GRFS sights as you said.

I suppose a more specific question would be how much clamp space would be necessary for the mount? If small enough(yet maintaining proper clamp) and having the mount clamped as far possible against the flash suppressor, do you suspect that one can move the gas assembly out of the way and off the spines so that the gas hole can be cleaned with the flash suppressor and sight mount in tact? *(Obviously cleaning the gas hole in the cyl is still somewhat limited without complete removal).

Are you expecting to mount these with an indexing spine and/or should client have to mark barrel with index mark to facilitate sighting in after assembly?
 
these are for SHORTENED barrels only ... otherwise the threaded part of the original F/H mount is too large in diameter to slip on the sight base easily.

I'm still thinking over a repalacement for the full length barrels, but not sure yet what i'll do about those.

PS: you don't need to take off the gas assembly to clean out the gas port in the barrel????
 
Lazerus2000 said:
these are for SHORTENED barrels only ... otherwise the threaded part of the original F/H mount is too large in diameter to slip on the sight base easily.

I'm still thinking over a repalacement for the full length barrels, but not sure yet what i'll do about those.

PS: you don't need to take off the gas assembly to clean out the gas port in the barrel????
Click to expand...

No of course the gas assembly doesn't need to be taken off to clean the gas port. With the cyl in place, pulling the gas nut and taking out the piston avails the hole straight through to do all necessary cleaning. My comment was just a curious one for those obsessed with cleaning every possible nook and crany, and who often remove the gas assembly for cleaning. Personally, I couldn't be bothered and just pop out the piston..but some do.



I understand that the clamp will be for chopped barrels due to limits of sizing of the clamp to properly fit.

Will this be essentially a round clamp with a flat(with dovetail)? Re-assembly would involve some degree of eyeballing (probably rebarreling indexing style using receiver flat?)?

Do you think there is any conceivable way(or reason to) have a spine extension on the clamp which would mate with the remaining end cuts for the gas assembly spines(ie the slot end leftover)? This could possibly act as a orientation index to minimise eyeballing during reassembly? This would probably be more expensive than beneficial possibly....
 
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The other reason I am curious about a clamp with a said slot/spline to index the sight is that it might also 'prevent' slipping/rotating(on the barrel) should the front sight be banged. I have no doubt that a well designed clamp will not move but it certainly wouldn't hurt to have such an extension.
 
Originally I thought about providing a boyonet lug at the buttom, just like the AC 556, but hey ... lets get real here ... shoving in the bayonet might not move the sight, but providing the recommended twist to the bayo before withdrawel just might move the sight a bit.

So NO bayo lugs fotr you
[;{)

And no spline either ... one of the major design points is to aviod having to index the barrel PERFECTLY, so the sight can be used take up a bit of rotation - sight to be perfectly vertical, and barrel not perfect. this provides a quick fix for those who chop the barrel WITHOUIT pulling it out of the receiver.

TTFN
LAZ 1
 
Lazerus2000 said:
Originally I thought about providing a boyonet lug at the buttom, just like the AC 556, but hey ... lets get real here ... shoving in the bayonet might not move the sight, but providing the recommended twist to the bayo before withdrawel just might move the sight a bit.

So NO bayo lugs fotr you
[;{)
Click to expand...

DOH! Me and my big mouth of senseless rubbish hogwash. I take back my comment, I'm not worthy!!!! :slap:

We want bayonet lugs !

Lazerus2000 said:
And no spline either ... one of the major design points is to aviod having to index the barrel PERFECTLY, so the sight can be used take up a bit of rotation - sight to be perfectly vertical, and barrel not perfect. this provides a quick fix for those who chop the barrel WITHOUIT pulling it out of the receiver.
TTFN
LAZ 1
Click to expand...

Perfectly valid point in the case of minorly out of index rifles want to use the sight. I assumed that people would generally be geeks about it and get it indexed down to the last angle.
 
Well, maybe,
since you are so abjectly polite about it, and acknowledge your unworthiness, there might be bayo lugs ...
but just for you and me.
We can be trusted NOT to twist the bayonets, eh what??

But bayo lugs WILL cost extra [ LOTS of XTRA work ]
[;{}\LAZ 1
 
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