- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
You reap what you sow...
March of german prisoners in Moscow
- Thread starter snowhunter
- Start date
My uncle, whose unit was surrounded and captured by the Russians in Feb. 1945, spent 3.5 years in a POW camp. He mentioned to me how the sheets "would move at night". He also lost his hearing in one of his ears because of the malnutrition in the camps. He was released in 1948, moved to Canada to help get the family started and assisted in the bringing the family from Germany over to Canada in the 1960s. I'm proud to say that I am first generation Canadian on my father's side who was apart of this move.
The responsiblity for this tragic german invasion of Russia, must solely be on the german political and military apparatus, who very wrongly had come to the conclusion, that Russia could be defeated by Germany.
After 26 million russian deads of WW2, Germany was defeated and in ruin, as well as leaving Stalin and the communist in Russia, stronger than ever before, in which as soon as the WW2 was over, Russia became a serious military problem for the west and NATO.
After 26 million russian deads of WW2, Germany was defeated and in ruin, as well as leaving Stalin and the communist in Russia, stronger than ever before, in which as soon as the WW2 was over, Russia became a serious military problem for the west and NATO.
Thank God the Soviet threat is'nt what it once was,altho they still have a considerable nuclear capability.
Things do seem to change for the better,be it ever so slowly. During my last duty trip to Germany in 1992 I made a point of touring up along the former inner German boundary up in the Fulda Gap where we expected to fight the Soviet hordes. All traces of the old border were gone by then. There were 3 pretty young women chatting away in a restaurant near me and I finally figured out that they were speaking Russian. I commented that the Russians had finally made it,but never in the way we expected. Alleluia!
Things do seem to change for the better,be it ever so slowly. During my last duty trip to Germany in 1992 I made a point of touring up along the former inner German boundary up in the Fulda Gap where we expected to fight the Soviet hordes. All traces of the old border were gone by then. There were 3 pretty young women chatting away in a restaurant near me and I finally figured out that they were speaking Russian. I commented that the Russians had finally made it,but never in the way we expected. Alleluia!
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
If I ever get a chance to talk to my great uncle, I'll see if he's willing to talk about what he went through. He was a mechanic in a Panzer unit on the Eastern Front. He was captured when his squad came face to face with a Russian squad doing the same thing: Salvaging parts from a knocked out tank. The Russians were quicker on the draw. He was taken prisoner, and was released from POW camp in 1949. He came to Canada sometime thereafter, settled in the Okanogan and owned an orchard in Westbank. Of course, back in the early 80s, he sold off most of his land, kept a couple of trees, and it's now subdivision, but he opted for an early retirement to tinker away in his shop and become a grumpy old man. 
I think I should make a trip down there this summer to pay him and my grandmother both a visit. They can't stand each other, but they only live about 5 minutes apart.
I think I should make a trip down there this summer to pay him and my grandmother both a visit. They can't stand each other, but they only live about 5 minutes apart.
PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
Chairman Mao wasn't bad, either...
PP.
NZClaybuster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Check out the itunes podcast by Dan Carlin regarding the Ostfrunt (sp) Educational, disturbing makes me appreciate being alive today and vigilant. The podcast is called hardcore history.
His (known) death toll is where ? In the 70 MILLION range or so ?
I recently had a conversation with Dave, a co-worker about that.
His reaction ?
Meh, when taken per capita (and I have to admit there is a LOT of people in China, both then and now) it's a pretty small amount considering that there was a war on and all that.
How the HELL does anyone just shrug off 70 MILLION HUMAN BEINGS and still call himself human ?
That part sort of baffles me.
Dave is a nice guy, and a competent employee, and a buddy of mine who's girlfriend (recently upgraded to wife congrats to him) keeps pestering me thru him to take her to the range but seriously, WHAT THE HELL ?
War is a horrible thing, be it a war of liberation, conquest, or revolution, and believe me I do understand, fully grasp, and accept the concept of "casualties of war", be it civilian OR military.
s**t happens in war, and people die. Be it as accidental, unintended consequences or as the result of direct action.
But still, 70 MILLION is a hellovalot of people to just shrug off.
I recently had a conversation with Dave, a co-worker about that.
His reaction ?
Meh, when taken per capita (and I have to admit there is a LOT of people in China, both then and now) it's a pretty small amount considering that there was a war on and all that.
How the HELL does anyone just shrug off 70 MILLION HUMAN BEINGS and still call himself human ?
That part sort of baffles me.
Dave is a nice guy, and a competent employee, and a buddy of mine who's girlfriend (recently upgraded to wife congrats to him) keeps pestering me thru him to take her to the range but seriously, WHAT THE HELL ?
War is a horrible thing, be it a war of liberation, conquest, or revolution, and believe me I do understand, fully grasp, and accept the concept of "casualties of war", be it civilian OR military.
s**t happens in war, and people die. Be it as accidental, unintended consequences or as the result of direct action.
But still, 70 MILLION is a hellovalot of people to just shrug off.
One of the best books goes into a fair bit regarding life in POW camp in Russia...
Panzer Commander by Hans Von Luck.
The absolute best book for insight through the german eyes of war on ww2 from the war without hate (Afrika campaign) to the Western front to the Eastern front to life in a goulag.
Only other book I think is on this level is Stuka Pilot by Hans Ulrich Rudel.
Panzer Commander by Hans Von Luck.
The absolute best book for insight through the german eyes of war on ww2 from the war without hate (Afrika campaign) to the Western front to the Eastern front to life in a goulag.
Only other book I think is on this level is Stuka Pilot by Hans Ulrich Rudel.
X2 ... That "series" will "wake you up!"
By comparison the Western Front was a very small sideshow....and that is not to denigrate the struggle in Western Europe!! The nuclear weapon was a show of force for the benefit of the Soviets as well as the Japanese
"The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer is important reading
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
Now, imagine what it takes for a country to survive for centuries, being smack right in the middle of those evil empires.
Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
why is it snowhunter that always starts these threads?
the russians weren't alone in "losing" prisoners there are a couple of books out on German prisoners captured by the western powers that didn't make it home after the war
Uncounted Losses or something like that
the russians weren't alone in "losing" prisoners there are a couple of books out on German prisoners captured by the western powers that didn't make it home after the war
Uncounted Losses or something like that
Stalin was truly a special kind of evil, there is a story of Stalin and Beriev signing 3800 death warrants in one day (pre war, Stalin insisted on personally signing every death warrant) then going out for dinner. He is also widely credited with saying "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"
The book you are referring to is by James Bacque, Other Losses: An Investigation into the Mass Deaths of German Prisoners of War at the Hands of the French and Americans After World War II. I actually read it years ago. (FYI, he's a CDN.)
His numbers were ripped apart and proven to be complete BS.
edit: the numbers below are believed to be accurate. iirc some numbers are from or concur with a West German Commission investigation.
I hardly think that you can compare the death rates of the other allies to the Russians. Just some stats for you:
The German annual death rates in:
US hands (1%)
French hands (2.6%)
Soviet hands (35-50%)
US PoWs in Japanese hands (27%)
Soviet PoWs in German hands (60-80%)
His numbers were ripped apart and proven to be complete BS.
edit: the numbers below are believed to be accurate. iirc some numbers are from or concur with a West German Commission investigation.
I hardly think that you can compare the death rates of the other allies to the Russians. Just some stats for you:
The German annual death rates in:
US hands (1%)
French hands (2.6%)
Soviet hands (35-50%)
US PoWs in Japanese hands (27%)
Soviet PoWs in German hands (60-80%)
16 german divisions in the east for every german division in the west. I can't remember if that is simply armoured divisions or in general. If the ratio had been more in favour of the western front, a lot more allied(western allied) troops wouldn't have come home.
cool fact: Russian T-34 was a ripped off American design.
Everyone should read "Bamboo and Bushido"... can't recall the author, but it is a first hand account of a man on the Burma railway at the hands of the Japanese. Grim, really grim.
While living in Mexico, I learned from my third or fourth generation mexican/russian neighbour, that while his ancestors were still in Russia, the elders of his particular russian church, had around year 1900 come to to the conclusion that Russian would become a very dangerous place in the near future, and therefore urged the whole congregation to emigrate, which they did. The found a sanctuary in Argentina, but did not like it, and eventually settled in around the town of Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico, from where many continued to the US in the fifties.
What my mexican/russian had to say about this move was: "my church elders in 1900, were right about Russian becomming a dangerous place, over 70 millions russians have meet a violent dead the last 100 years".
What my mexican/russian had to say about this move was: "my church elders in 1900, were right about Russian becomming a dangerous place, over 70 millions russians have meet a violent dead the last 100 years".
That's the story favoured by the media, however another is the the Germans had no choice, any more than the Japanese did.
I don't think that it is so simple as we were told.
If the germans didn't invade russia,the russians would have eventually invaded the west.it was only a matter of timing.
FYI there is a new book coming out about allied war crimes.Every publisher turned him down.It is being privately printed.Should make interesting reading.
When I was in university one of my teachers was in a french prison camp from may 45 to april 46.Conditions were deplorable,1000's of germans died of starvation and exposure during the fall and winter.
FYI there is a new book coming out about allied war crimes.Every publisher turned him down.It is being privately printed.Should make interesting reading.
When I was in university one of my teachers was in a french prison camp from may 45 to april 46.Conditions were deplorable,1000's of germans died of starvation and exposure during the fall and winter.
