Marlin Guide Gun

I don't have a Guide Gun but my 1895 wouldn't feed reliably if I cycled the breech block too fast...I had to take a file to the timing cam inside the gun. A dozen strokes and some polishing and it has been perfect since.

The other problem I had was the crappy rear sight from the factory broke. I replaced it with a commercial sight; will probably go for ghost ring in the future.
 
Originally Posted by Republic of Alberta
With 350g er's at 2000fps these are honest 250 yard guns for large moose sized game. I use mine as a tool not a toy. With the scope it makes it that much better. You can be sure that it is no poseur rifle.

But now that you say it the only pics of them that I ever seem to see are nice shiny rifles sitting in the gun room

Here's mine in action
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Republic, please enlighten me what as to what bullet you are using. A 350 grain bullet at 2000 fps will have around 1000 ftlbs of energy at 250 yards plus if zeroed at 100 your 26" low at 250. Zeroed at 150 your 16" low at 250. The rainbow trajectory plus the measely 1000-1100 ftlbs remaining at 250 yards, hardly makes this cartridge "an honest 250 yard gun for large moose" i would call it very very borderline.
 
Win94 said:
Actually you got er down pat Chuck. That scope came from Northernboater who used it on a Ruger #1.:D
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Darn I'm good!

As for the discussion about whether or not a scope makes sense on a .45/70 or not I'd say it makes a lot of sense. My last .45/70 only ever had a peep sight on it and it shot great. But I also never had any intention of using it outside of the brush. I shoot peep sights quite well but there is not doubt that I'll shoot better with a scope as distance begins to stretch.

Chuck
 
Weakness? I'd have to say the worst part of the stock guide gun is the factory sights. Easily changed out to far better units to suit your tastes.






Wasn't that good? I managed a positive post about the guide gun and didn't point out that the Outfitter is chambered in the superior 444Marlin and packs an extra round in the tube! :D
 
With the forward scope mount, you can shoot clay targets (so they say). For a lot of people's eyes that's the ticket. Putting a highish power scope on a short barreled rifle with a pistol+ trajectory seems unecesarry. And if you do it I suppose the issue becomes, why such a short barrel?

I like both scopes and open sights. The guide gun is mostly a defensive concept, express sights might be the best option for that. They are faster to pick up than ghost rings etc...
 
Express sights faster to pick up than ghost rings! :confused:Ghost rings are express sights with a little accuracy, some with a housing some without What do you mean, and what are you calling express sights, the rear v with a big bead. The only thing I have used faster than ghost rings is a shotgun and that's a point, not aim.
For defense and accurate 50-100 yrds, you can't beat Ghost
 
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For defense and accurate 50-100 yrds, you can't beat Ghost - except with a red dot. :p

On my guide gun in 444 I switch between a low powered variable scope and a red dot depending on what type of use I plan for it. I am far faster and more accurate with the red dot than with irons, but that's just me.
 
I would be useless with a red dot. I can't imagine raising a rifle and looking for the dot on a charging bear. But on a target, hell ya.

How do the red dots work. I only had a cheap one on a 22 once and it required that it be turned on.

Wouldn't make much sense to me in a defensive situation to have to turn it on, nor to walk around with one already on.
 
I'm calling express sights, express sights.

Ghost rings/sights (GR) are large aperture rear sights that trade a bit of accuracy for a better view of the target in low light and faster pick up on the target. They are either purpose built that way, or sometimes they are the aperture sight minus the aperture insert. I always associate the term with Jeff Cooper, though I am not sure who first coined it. I think Cooper may have preferred the GR on his African stopping rifles, an opinion shared by Elmer Keith.

Express sights are found on English style African stopping rifles of "best" manufacture, and sometimes other guns, even including the occasional pistol. Normally they consist of a bead front sight and a very shallow rear V sight. In the best examples, the sights are silver soldered on, or otherwise made permanent for a particular load and rifle. The near range sight will be integral and there are additional leaves that can be folded up for lobbing out beyond hand feeding ranges. While that's the ideal, they are also popular in less rigorous examples as with the express sights that are popular in Cowboy action shooting, though they seem often to diverge from the purest formula when they use a variety of rear leaf sights like buckhorns, or deep Us. The Cowboy action shooters seem pretty much to have proven that these sights outshoot the ghost rings for speed, which was at one time a view shared by African PHs, not sure what they currently prefer.

Ghost ring is not a sight set type it is basically a characterization of the rear aperture. You can use a GR with any front sight you can hit with. Some manufacturers like XS make both styles of sight.
 
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I have a rifle that has express sights, the bead and V, and it is useless beyond 25 yrds to aim for anything, maybe 50, for me that is.
While the express sights may have had their day and their acclaimed supporters, I honestly believe that the ghost ring is far more relied upon today than express sights, though I did see a newer 4 something that had them, maybe a 450 or 444, They were aftermarket of course.
 
Win94 said:
Republic, please enlighten me what as to what bullet you are using. A 350 grain bullet at 2000 fps will have around 1000 ftlbs of energy at 250 yards plus if zeroed at 100 your 26" low at 250. Zeroed at 150 your 16" low at 250. The rainbow trajectory plus the measely 1000-1100 ftlbs remaining at 250 yards, hardly makes this cartridge "an honest 250 yard gun for large moose" i would call it very very borderline.
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3" high at 100 gives about a foot and a half low at 250. Using that information should give you an Idea of what to do. If you are not capable of using your head and rifle at the same time then I guess you shoud give up hunting.

Also energy means nothing. That bullet will go right through a moose, and that is how you kill game.
 
I have owned Marlins in .444 and a guide Gun in .45-70, and they are great guns. Win94, yours sure does look sweet with that scope on it!
 
I agree with Republic. 250 yds can be realistic on game with a kill zone the size of a moose. Provided the shooter has the skill and experience to make the shot and conditions are right. Rangefinder would be a valuable tool to calculate range and holdover. Sectional density and frontal area more than make up for energy, particularly if cast bullets are used. There is tons of penetration test data to back that up. That big pill at that range has killing power and penetration out of proportion to it's energy.
 
Win 94's not only looks good, it's a well thought out setup with the QRW rings and fiber optic sights. Mine is similar but I haven't upgraded my sights yet. I use a red dot for those situations instead.

Part of my reasoning is that I live on a ranch and need to be able to deal with bears after dark. The red dot is much easier to use with a light instead of trying to line up the "shadow" of the iron sights against the black of the bear's fur. The fiber optics probably solve that problem, but I haven't had a chance to try them yet.

Sealhunter - I'm not suggesting that a red dot would be the best choice for you, just for me. I don't have the extensive experience with irons that many people do so except for super close it takes me a while to get on target. With the red dot my 444 will put two rounds through one large hole at 50 yards so they are also more precise for me than irons.

The red dot is very easy to use. You shoot with both eyes open, just look at the target and when you shoulder your rifle the red dot shows in front of it. You have a very wide field of view and the red dot comes on target instinctively like the ghost ring does. It's not like a traditional scope where you can only see what shows inside the scope, you see everything that is in your normal field of view.

There is no parallax or eye relief to worry about. You don't have to fuss with centering your eyes in the scope or anything, just look at your target and wherever you see the red dot is where your bullet will end up.

Batteries last a very long time in them as well, so leaving it on all day is not a concern. Like I said, it's best for me, not for everybody. :)
 
As for the crossbolt safety... I have a 94 bigbore with the same flaw. I had a gunsmith cut it flush with the side plate, so that I can use the tip of a cartridge, to push it to the safety on position, for unloading. That way it is actually of use instead of a pain in the butt.
 
3" high at 100 gives about a foot and a half low at 250. Using that information should give you an Idea of what to do. If you are not capable of using your head and rifle at the same time then I guess you shoud give up hunting.

Also energy means nothing. That bullet will go right through a moose, and that is how you kill game.
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...............I don't feel comfortable knowing my gun is 16" low at the game i am shooting at. I will be at the Edson range on Monday morning if you want to show me how consistant you can pull this off at 250 yards.:D :dancingbanana:
 
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I have extremely hot loads for 45 70 and shooting at 200 yards is a task, but doable. Beyond that, You need one guy calling distance, another guy cranking up the barrel, and someone to shout fire. Then everyone stands up and watches a moment to see if it hits the target.:D
 
I have extremely hot loads for 45 70 and shooting at 200 yards is a task, but doable. Beyond that, You need one guy calling distance, another guy cranking up the barrel, and someone to shout fire. Then everyone stands up and watches a moment to see if it hits the target.
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I am not into hailmary shots myself.:D With a moose, if your 16" low, aiming for the hump should be the money shot i would think.
 
Also energy means nothing. That bullet will go right through a moose, and that is how you kill game.
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Hard cast or jacketed??? I can't see a jacketed 350 grainer with 1000-1100ftlbs go through a moose at 250 yards??

I have dropped one with a .38-55 but it was a hard cast with BHN rating of 25 and it was chugging along at about 1500fps when it hit. That bullet went clean through but again it was a hard cast.
 
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