Marlin Guide Gun

Republic of Alberta said:
A flat nosed jacketed bullet at a low velocity (so low it does not expand) acts like a hard cast.

So your years of extensive testing has allowed you to make such a clear and consise statement. If you shoot some more rocks, you might be able to broaden your explanation for us...:):):):):)

Win94 said:
Republic, please enlighten me what as to what bullet you are using. A 350 grain bullet at 2000 fps will have around 1000 ftlbs of energy at 250 yards plus if zeroed at 100 your 26" low at 250. Zeroed at 150 your 16" low at 250. The rainbow trajectory plus the measely 1000-1100 ftlbs remaining at 250 yards, hardly makes this cartridge "an honest 250 yard gun for large moose" i would call it very very borderline.

Mark, trajectory has nothing to do with ability to kill... the 45-70 was chosen by the US military in 1873 due to its ability to reliably kill horses and such out to 600 yards. And the starting velocity wasnt much more than the impact velocity of the 350@ 250 yards
250 yards is well within a hotloaded 45-70's capability... and beyond... If the shooter, and the equipment can do the part... Im sure that Cat and some of the other single shot guys can attest to that...
A factory 300gr load sure rings the gong @ 200 yards, but noise doesnt equate to downrange energy (I know :))
 
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Mark, trajectory has nothing to do with ability to kill... the 45-70 was chosen by the US military in 1873 due to its ability to reliably kill horses and such out to 600 yards. And the starting velocity wasnt much more than the impact velocity of the 350@ 250 yards
250 yards is well within a hotloaded 45-70's capability... and beyond... If the shooter, and the equipment can do the part... Im sure that Cat and some of the other single shot guys can attest to that...
A factory 300gr load sure rings the gong @ 200 yards, but noise doesnt equate to downrange energy (I know )

I totally agree. I just don't agree with the huge rainbow trajectory being good for conistant hits. Its hit or miss.
 
have put 5 bears and 2 moose on the ground with my .450 marlin

350gr hornady @ 2150fps. I take this rifle guiding, it functions flawlessly, and and I trust it to save me from nasty things with teeth.

everyone should own one :D
 
ipscgraz said:
...The other problem I had was the crappy rear sight from the factory broke. I replaced it with a commercial sight; will probably go for ghost ring in the future.

My rear sight on my XLR did the same on day 2 of buying it. The shop replace it w/ another factory sight but I also add a Williams FP 336.

The gun was bought just last summer and I have ~300 rounds fired. Everything is working to plan.
 
Amphibious said:
350gr hornady @ 2150fps. I take this rifle guiding, it functions flawlessly, and and I trust it to save me from nasty things with teeth.

everyone should own one :D
Holy ####, I agree with Amphibious, and he's 100% right...

Oh the horror:D :D :D :D :D
 
Win94 said:
I totally agree. I just don't agree with the huge rainbow trajectory being good for conistant hits. Its hit or miss.
Maybe if it's windy... But if a guy knows the 'rainbow', then surely he'll get the pot of gold.

It's all about knowing your limitations and we all know that this can't be learned if you're not out practising/shooting.

Now on with the show! :popCorn:
 
Republic of Alberta said:
When you start posting pics of all the animals you shot with your guide gun you can have some credibility.

Swinging dicks with Captain Deadly isn't worth my time.

Untill then we have a city guy from Calgary that has probably not shot a moose with a 45-70 telling a bush guy who has shot moose, bears, trees, rocks ect at all kinds of ranges what the limits are for the guide gun. I can't respect that.

Your generalization couldn't be further from the truth, kinda like your bullet test. Ask anyone who knows me.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
Hey, I know it's not even close to a good bullet test but I needed a quick and dirty sample. I have also shot dry newspaper at 1800fps as well as a moose head at 2100fps and trees at all kinds of crazy ranges.


In this thread I have

#1 Stated the flaws of this rifle
#2 Porovided proof I actualy use mine
#3 Given an opinion of what the maximum range limitation is based on actual experience.


When you start posting pics of all the animals you shot with your guide gun you can have some credibility.

Untill then we have a city guy from Calgary that has probably not shot a moose with a 45-70 telling a bush guy who has shot moose, bears, trees, rocks ect at all kinds of ranges what the limits are for the guide gun. I can't respect that.

You do understand that trees give little or no indication of potential expansion or penetration on game?
 
Here's a flaw for you, my 1895 had the barrel screwed on only "most" of the way. the sights were noticeably cocked to the right. My gunsmith had to crank the whole barrel about 10-15 degrees clockwise, or further into the reciever. Sights are now TDC and it shoots good. The factory rear sith is crap IMHO. I replaced it with a slot blank and installed a Lyman reciever sight.
 
crazy_davey said:
Your generalization couldn't be further from the truth, kinda like your bullet test. Ask anyone who knows me.

Everyone is an expert on the web. Please, humour us, post some pics so we can see for ourselves that you know of what you debate
 
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OK, I will bite. I don't hunt with my Marlin GG 45/70, but I have hunted with my 22" Marlin 45/70. With a wide variety of hunting rifles to hunt with, the GG would never be my first or probably even second choice to take hunting. I bought my first one(I am on my second) as a bush carry rifle for hiking etc. over the summer and to spend nights in the tent when in bear country. But with that said I have shot and killed between 15 and 20 animals with a GG, Llamas to be exact. I think in the end we slaughtered about 50 of them, all with my rifles. But because this is a GG thread I will stick to that. What better way to test bullets than live animals.....

A friend of mine had over 200 Lamas at one point and was strictly feeding his family with them. I had the opportunity to do all the shooting of about 50 of these animals with what ever gun I chose and whatever way I chose(trying not to waste meat of course). This was done over a peiod of about two years. All the ones I did shoot with the GG were all one shot kills using 53-54g of 3031 behind a Reminton 405g bullet, the same load I use up to this day. Some were head shots, some were lung shots and a couple were facing straight on. All were shot at different ranges because most of the time they were far to hard to round up.

I didn't take pics, and even if I did I would never post them on the interweb. Slaughtering animals in a field in my opinion is not something to brag about, but it is a good bullet test.

Here is one of the ones I owned not long before he got lead to slaughter because of a bad infection in his jaw, he ended up as dog food. Most of the ones I shot for slaughter were much bigger than he is in the pic. I used a 255g hard cast 45 Colt on him at point blank range to the head.
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The deer on the right in this pic was shot with my 22" Marlin 45/70 with the same load listed avove at about 50 yards. The one to the left of it was shot with the same model of rifle using the same load at about 125 yards, different shooter.
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The deer on top was taken one year later with the second above mentioned rifle at 70 or so yards using the same load once again. I never shot it but I was standing right beside the shooter. I have also been witness to many other animals falling to this rifle all using the same load.
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Since I had my first GG I have probably shot close to 2000 rounds of hand loaded 45/70 between all three rifles. Lots of target shooting, dead tree and stump shooting, wet and dry newspaper bundles and almost anything else that was around at the time.
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These are the two I currently own.
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My current bush carry rifle is a 20" 375 H&H and hopefully in a few weeks I will be testing it on black bears. I sure wish there was more slaughtering to do because I have some bullets for it I am just dieing to test on a live animal. I guess a bear will have to do.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
Untill then we have a city guy from Calgary that has probably not shot a moose with a 45-70 telling a bush guy who has shot moose, bears, trees, rocks ect at all kinds of ranges what the limits are for the guide gun. I can't respect that.

While I am at it I will respond to this.

Just because of where I live now means nothing. I didn't grow up in the city, the first 20 or so years of my life were spent on a farm near the foothills and mountains of Southern Alberta. I spend more time in the bush in one year than most people do in 10. I don't live in the city because I choose to, I live here because of my wifes high paying job(I work out of the city). So please explain to me what living in Calgary has to do with this.

BTW, I hate swamp donkeys, everything about them so I don't hunt them and never will, thats my choice. But I have been on about 12 or 13 moose hunts in my 20 or so years of hunting and seen every one of them shot with all sorts of different calibers including 45/70.

Do you know enough about me yet, or do you want to know more.........
 
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Crazy Davey: You certainly seem like a GG expert to me, I don't mean to turn the disscusion, but I have just started reloading for my GG and was wondering if you have tried the 400gn Speers. I was trying to decide between them and the Remington 405s. I ended up ordering a box of Speers, basically flipped a coin. But was wondering if you tried both and prefered the Remington?
 
My_Ram said:
Crazy Davey: You certainly seem like a GG expert to me, I don't mean to turn the disscusion, but I have just started reloading for my GG and was wondering if you have tried the 400gn Speers. I was trying to decide between them and the Remington 405s. I ended up ordering a box of Speers, basically flipped a coin. But was wondering if you tried both and prefered the Remington?

I may know a few things, but I am by no means an expert. Expert is a pretty serious word :eek:

I did load and shoot some of the 400's a few years back but I will have to look up my load data. After using the 405 Rem. and seen many animals killed with that bullet as well as other tests, I decided to stick with basically one load. It has shot well in all three of my 45/70's and with 3031 has been very accurate for lever rifles. I would have to look up load data, but with 54g of 3031 behind the 405 I was getting about 1850fps out of my 22" Marlin.

PM me if you want more detailed data and I will look up some of my notes for you.

I have loaded 45/70 for three or four members of CGN, maybe they have something to add.
 
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Wow, sure is quiet in here... Davey, it looks like ROA has ran out of pictures of his rocks he's shot that elevated him to professional internet hunter status, and resident guide gun expert...
 
crazy_davey said:
I may know a few things, but I am by no means an expert. Expert is a pretty serious word :eek:

I did load and shoot some of the 400's a few years back but I will have to look up my load data. After using the 405 Rem. and seen many animals killed with that bullet as well as other tests, I decided to stick with basically one load. It has shot well in all three of my 45/70's and with 3031 has been very accurate for lever rifles. I would have to look up load data, but with 54g of 3031 behind the 405 I was getting about 1850fps out of my 22" Marlin.

PM me if you want more detailed data and I will look up some of my notes for you.

I have loaded 45/70 for three or four members of CGN, maybe they have something to add.
Some good info you've posted Crazy Davey. Accuracy wise I've had good results using the Speer 400gr Flat-SP with 53grs of IMR 3031 in my .45-70 Marlin GS. I haven't used it on game, yet, hopefully this fall.
I was at P&d a couple of weeks ago and asked about 405gr Rem's but they didn't have any in stock. I've heard of good results with the 405's and hopefully I'll be able to try some out soon.
A couple of guys I shoot with, hs4570 & 303 Carbine, use IMR 4198 in this cartridge, with excellant results so I did pick up a couple of lbs while at P&d.
Again, good info.:)
 
I've needed to sort through a lot of conjecture and opinion (read::bsFlag:), but there is actually some great information here from a few with actual field experience (read:very few:rockOn:) on the 45-70 and GG.
 
My experience tells me that 54 grains of 3031 under 400 gr Speer FN's will hit within an inch @ 100.

Haven't tried the 405 Remmy's. I have been seeing some good results with them though. The next time I need to restock, I'll grab a box of them also.

It's good to have a plan B.
 
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