marlin lever guns, opinions please...

[ruger22]

With marlin lever guns what is the deal with the ballard vs microgrove barrels?

 

[ben hunchak]

Alot of people equate the Ballard"cut" rifling with good performance with cast bullets as they are used in the various "cowboy" comps. Microgroove barrels are said to do better with j-word bullets, although I will argue different. The bottom line is that the calibers that most Marlins are made in are best with cast bullets and cut rifling is best for cast bullets.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Some guys shoot cast bullets just fine in micro groove barrels. It may have to do with the loads they are shooting, and the design and hardness of the bullets.
For consistant lead bullet performance, I'd stay clear of the micro groove.
As Ben said, both shoot jacketted just fine.

 

[Ardent]

Micro-groove is an interesting idea and I'm glad to have the option in the marketplace, but go ballard for versatility hands down. Both will shoot jacketed just as well, and ballard will shot cast better (or at least cleaner) most of the time.

 

[303carbine]

Ballard vs Micro Groove

The myth of Micro-Groove is exactly that, a myth. Slug the bore and go 2 thou over and either one will shoot fine. I have found that having cast bullets slightly softer and shooting them slower is better for accuracy and with proper lube the leading is zero. It's easier on the rifle and the shooter to shoot loads that don't rattle your fillings.
I did some bullet tests shooting 420 grain gas checked bullets into railway ties. I shot through six ties set up at 100 yards and have yet to recover a bullet.
I load the 420 GC cast bullets with 40 grains of H4198 and get 1635 fps over the chronograph.
I have found with the 45-70 that faster is not better.......

 

[cariboo_kid]

Micro groove works just fine with cast as stated above. People who had problems were using bullets with too small a diameter. Size them .002 over the bore and no more problems, they can be extremely accurate.

The myth may have begun with 444marlin shooters using cast bullets that were intended for 44 magnums and were .429 diameter, while the 444 microgroove usually needs about .432 or .433 diameter cast bullets.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

In the .444 Marlin (micro groove) and in my Marlin 1895GS .45-70 (ballard) I shoot both cast and jacketed.
In the .444, for cast, I have primarily two I use. A 250gr Keith style SW with Gas Check and a 325gr Keith style SW with GC. With jacketed bullets, what has performed best for me, so far, accuracy wise & hunting, is the Hornady 265gr FP. I enjoy shooting the cast bullets I mentioned as well as a few others but if I had to pick one, I'd have to go with the Hornady.
With the .45-70, there are three cast bullets cast I use. They all have the same basic profile, which I would classify as Long Flat Nose and they all have GC's. A 325gr, 420gr and a 525gr although I'll probably leave the 525gr for my .458wm. As with the .444, I enjoy shooting cast, but my one 'pick of the litter' in the .45-70, to date, is the jacketed 400gr Speer Flat-SP although the 350gr Hornady FP does pretty good.
I haven't tried any of the Remington 405gr in the .45-70 but I'm looking forward to doing so as soon as I can get my hands on some. I've heard good reports on them.
It's already been mentioned but sizing cast at least 0.001" over bore diameter seems to benefit the accuracy, with ballard or micro groove rifling.

 

[cariboo_kid]

John, I notice you like the 400 speer in the 45/70. Have you tried the speer 300 in the 444? Lots of the guys down south seem to like it, but I haven't come across any locally to try them yet.

 

[Rudy H]

I have been shooting regular lead cast bullets in my Marlin micro-groove 1894 for years with no problem. But I don't shoot full magnum loads in it.

When I first tried it with full loads I had a lot of problems with accuracy and leading. After that I did not push lead more than comfortable cowboy loads. (I use the gun for cowboy action shooting) If I wanted to hunt with it or shoot full power I would then use jacketed.

I'm not sure if my problem was if the bullet stripped the rifling or the problem was lead from the base of the bullet vaporising and then being deposited on the barrel. Now some people say you can shoot gas-checked bullets at full power but why bother.

I have not cleaned my barrel in three years of cowboy action shooting. No visible lead in the barrel and no accuracy problems.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

John, I notice you like the 400 speer in the 45/70. Have you tried the speer 300 in the 444? Lots of the guys down south seem to like it, but I haven't come across any locally to try them yet.

Sort of. 240gord gave me a few to try a while back but I haven't tested enough loads with them to form an opinion. However, from how those few performed, I've got them on my must get list for my next 'shopping' trip at P&d. The 265's have worked well on a few Moose a little north of your area, Wells/Barkerville/Bowron Lake.
If I get at least compareable accuracy results with the Hornady 300gr HP-XTP or the Speer 300gr 44 USCP, I may well switch.
I have tried a few lighter, under 240gr, jacketed and cast but for me, the accuracy seems to drop off once get I below that weight.

 

[hermie]

I use Beartooth Bullets cast in my 444 with a load suggested by Marshall Stanton. It is a microgroove and shoots under an inch in my rifle. These are his 300 gr. and chrono at 2300 fps. Karl

 

[cariboo_kid]

I use Beartooth Bullets cast in my 444 with a load suggested by Marshall Stanton. It is a microgroove and shoots under an inch in my rifle. These are his 300 gr. and chrono at 2300 fps. Karl

How do you get those bullets in Canada? Another thread reported that they will not ship up here.

TIA

 

[Johnn Peterson]

I use Beartooth Bullets cast in my 444 with a load suggested by Marshall Stanton. It is a microgroove and shoots under an inch in my rifle. These are his 300 gr. and chrono at 2300 fps. Karl

I've taken a few looks through some of the Beartooth 'stuff' previously, especially dealing with 444 & .45-70 cast loads but I must've missed that one. To me, it 'seems' a little on the warm side, particularly as I like to have my cast bullets in that calibre range 0.001" - 0.002" over the bore daimeter. Also it appeares to be about 300 ft/sec faster than a lot of listed jacketed loads. What was the bullet & power charge used? Sounds as though you're getting good accuracy from it.

 

[cariboo_kid]

Sort of. 240gord gave me a few to try a while back but I haven't tested enough loads with them to form an opinion. However, from how those few performed, I've got them on my must get list for my next 'shopping' trip at P&d.

Just a heads up to keep your eyes open at other stores as well. I called Dianne earlier this year to try and get the speer 300 grain and she didn't have them. I didn't ask if it was just out of stock or an item she simply doesn't carry though.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Just a heads up to keep your eyes open at other stores as well. I called Dianne earlier this year to try and get the speer 300 grain and she didn't have them. I didn't ask if it was just out of stock or an item she simply doesn't carry though.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I should be headed back that way somewhere about the end of July so I may have to do a side trip to WSS.