Marstar`s 1887 levergun performance?
- Thread starter y2k
- Start date
Had mine out to the range the other day, decided to see what she would do with some winchester slugs I had on hand.The old girl shoots where shes' pointed and some more experimentation with different brands of slugs is warranted.She does kick a might with slugs though, and a slip on recoil pad is advised for serious slug shooting.
Thanks for posting this Y2K!! I was wondering the same thing myself.....now that I know it is Marstar who is selling them in these parts. I want one real bad. Heck, it could have an engraving of Chairman Mao in a cowboy hat on one side of the receiver and I would still want one
Anybody know if you can do the "drop two" loading method with these, or are mods. needed
Anybody know if you can do the "drop two" loading method with these, or are mods. needed
Kid Java said:Thanks for posting this Y2K!! I was wondering the same thing myself.....now that I know it is Marstar who is selling them in these parts. I want one real bad. Heck, it could have an engraving of Chairman Mao in a cowboy hat on one side of the receiver and I would still want one
Anybody know if you can do the "drop two" loading method with these, or are mods. needed
I think mods are needed, but not difficutl for a gunsmith to do.
In my opinion, in stock form they are a total disappointment - especially for us cowboy shooters that have been reading and watching the US literature on these guns.
DON'T CONFUSE THE NORINCO 1887'S FROM MARSTAR WITH ANYTHING THAT IS AVAILABLE IN THE US! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GUN!!
The US guns are made to specs that were set out by the US distributors, and many of them are further modified once they reach the states before they are sold to the public. I learned this when I spoke to 2 US distributors including Coyote Cap, and I also learned that there is no such thing as a kit for the 2-shell loading. The entire inner workings are totally different. Effectively, the receiver and all of the inner parts would need to be replaced and Cap is not prepared to sell the parts separately.
Also, the hard plastic butt plate not only slides on your shoulder, but the curvature is wrong for a lever gun. As soon as you move the lever, the butt slides down your chest and the muzzle points skyward. First modification is a rubber buttplate with a slightly negative angle (5-10 degrees) on it to allow levering the gun while at the shoulder.
Second modification is a leather lever wrap like what is on the US guns. Trust me, it is really easy to get the meat on the side of your finger bitten in the lever where it pivots at the mid-point. Lots of blood later you'll know what I am talking about.
If you buy this gun as a fun novelty, that's okay. But don't expect to shoot fast with it.
My gunsmith has mine right now and is going to make a winter project out of it. I'll keep you posted.
JB
DON'T CONFUSE THE NORINCO 1887'S FROM MARSTAR WITH ANYTHING THAT IS AVAILABLE IN THE US! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GUN!!
The US guns are made to specs that were set out by the US distributors, and many of them are further modified once they reach the states before they are sold to the public. I learned this when I spoke to 2 US distributors including Coyote Cap, and I also learned that there is no such thing as a kit for the 2-shell loading. The entire inner workings are totally different. Effectively, the receiver and all of the inner parts would need to be replaced and Cap is not prepared to sell the parts separately.
Also, the hard plastic butt plate not only slides on your shoulder, but the curvature is wrong for a lever gun. As soon as you move the lever, the butt slides down your chest and the muzzle points skyward. First modification is a rubber buttplate with a slightly negative angle (5-10 degrees) on it to allow levering the gun while at the shoulder.
Second modification is a leather lever wrap like what is on the US guns. Trust me, it is really easy to get the meat on the side of your finger bitten in the lever where it pivots at the mid-point. Lots of blood later you'll know what I am talking about.
If you buy this gun as a fun novelty, that's okay. But don't expect to shoot fast with it.
My gunsmith has mine right now and is going to make a winter project out of it. I'll keep you posted.
JB
Y2K, I think your post has been hi-jacked!!
flip1, that is great and timely info as I was thinking about ordering one today!
I have been following the trials and tribulations of Coyote Cap and the 1887 project on the SASS Wire. I was aware these are not the same guns as Cap's race ready versions, but I can't believe the internal parts and receiver are totally different.....these are mass produced guns. Maybe they are an earlier run from before Cap made changes. Who knows!?
Who is doing the gunsmithing on your gun and how much $$$$ is it costing you, if you don't mind saying?
What is your SASS alias flip? Maybe I know you??
Thanks!!
your pard,
KId Java
flip1, that is great and timely info as I was thinking about ordering one today!
I have been following the trials and tribulations of Coyote Cap and the 1887 project on the SASS Wire. I was aware these are not the same guns as Cap's race ready versions, but I can't believe the internal parts and receiver are totally different.....these are mass produced guns. Maybe they are an earlier run from before Cap made changes. Who knows!?
Who is doing the gunsmithing on your gun and how much $$$$ is it costing you, if you don't mind saying?
What is your SASS alias flip? Maybe I know you??
Thanks!!
your pard,
KId Java
From my discussions and what I have read ...
Coyote Cap actually made several trips to China to work with Norinco. He then shipped his own internals to them for installation. The receivers were either manufactured differently or re-machined to accept his internals. The entire first run, and the majority of the second run did not work when they arrived in the US. Many were sent back, and some were re-worked by Coyote in an effort to get them out for sale.
As for my local guy, he is a cowboy shooter himself and also operates a small but very busy gunshop at his home. He actually sold me the Marstar 87 (only cost me $10 more than ordering direct) and is as disappointed as I am in what we got. Decent, fun gun but not what we were expecting.
As for cost, I cannot answer that question. Complete tuneups including springs, polishing, honing chambers, etc... on SAA's and lever guns usually runs around $100. - and he stands behind his work. The 87 is going to be a winter project and a learning experience for him too, so he will likley have a lot of time into it, but he won't charge me the full rate. If you want his name, I can pm it to you.
As for my alias, it's "Bad Irish", but I dropped my SASS membership this fall as the cost didn't justify what I was getting/using. I don't shoot stateside, and our local Thunder Bay club is not sanctioned anyway.
JB
Coyote Cap actually made several trips to China to work with Norinco. He then shipped his own internals to them for installation. The receivers were either manufactured differently or re-machined to accept his internals. The entire first run, and the majority of the second run did not work when they arrived in the US. Many were sent back, and some were re-worked by Coyote in an effort to get them out for sale.
As for my local guy, he is a cowboy shooter himself and also operates a small but very busy gunshop at his home. He actually sold me the Marstar 87 (only cost me $10 more than ordering direct) and is as disappointed as I am in what we got. Decent, fun gun but not what we were expecting.
As for cost, I cannot answer that question. Complete tuneups including springs, polishing, honing chambers, etc... on SAA's and lever guns usually runs around $100. - and he stands behind his work. The 87 is going to be a winter project and a learning experience for him too, so he will likley have a lot of time into it, but he won't charge me the full rate. If you want his name, I can pm it to you.
As for my alias, it's "Bad Irish", but I dropped my SASS membership this fall as the cost didn't justify what I was getting/using. I don't shoot stateside, and our local Thunder Bay club is not sanctioned anyway.
JB
Thanks flip1!
I would like your gunsmith's contact info. Please send me a pm.
I know what you mean about SASS and have considered the same thing. I am hoping to go to some of the shoots in the U.S. when I retire....guess I could rejoin then, eh?
I would like your gunsmith's contact info. Please send me a pm.
I know what you mean about SASS and have considered the same thing. I am hoping to go to some of the shoots in the U.S. when I retire....guess I could rejoin then, eh?
I guess it all depends what you are expecting. The fit and finish is better than many Norinco products. The wood is better than the earlier 97's and coach guns, but not nearly as good as the "walnut" that they use on those models now. It cycles decently and as a novelty gun with questionable usefullness it is okay. The problem is that us CAS shooters were expecting what is advertised south of the border.
JB
JB
So once again I ask...How do you load these Shotguns?
Is there some sort of side feeding port like other lever actions, or something else?
Also while here...what are the alternatives to the Norinco lever action shotgun?
Who else makes them?
Is there some sort of side feeding port like other lever actions, or something else?
Also while here...what are the alternatives to the Norinco lever action shotgun?
Who else makes them?
Calum,
2nd question first. All of the "new" 87's are made in China by Norinco. The ones being sold in the US do not carry the Norinco name as they are made to specs and with internals provided by US marketers, including Coyote Cap. How they got around the US ban on Chinese guns is beyond me, but the Norinco name is not on them. Those guns are intended as the ultimate cowboy action gun. The guns in Canada are all Norincos distributed by Marstar and they are supposedly exact replicas of the original 87's as designed by John Browning. Personally, I think that Mr. Browning's guns probably worked better, but I have never handled an original.
As for loading, it is hard to describe when you have never held one, but here goes: With the lever forward (action open) the open chamber and the mag tube are exposed, looking sort of like an O/U shotgun. To load the tube you push a shell down and forward into the tube. Load another the same way. To load the chamber, you now either feed a round into the chamber and close the lever, or close the lever and rack a round into the chamber. Can you picture that? Everything is done from the back end as the bolt actually rotates back and down when the lever is moved forward. It's much easier to understand when you actually see one of these guns.
JB
2nd question first. All of the "new" 87's are made in China by Norinco. The ones being sold in the US do not carry the Norinco name as they are made to specs and with internals provided by US marketers, including Coyote Cap. How they got around the US ban on Chinese guns is beyond me, but the Norinco name is not on them. Those guns are intended as the ultimate cowboy action gun. The guns in Canada are all Norincos distributed by Marstar and they are supposedly exact replicas of the original 87's as designed by John Browning. Personally, I think that Mr. Browning's guns probably worked better, but I have never handled an original.
As for loading, it is hard to describe when you have never held one, but here goes: With the lever forward (action open) the open chamber and the mag tube are exposed, looking sort of like an O/U shotgun. To load the tube you push a shell down and forward into the tube. Load another the same way. To load the chamber, you now either feed a round into the chamber and close the lever, or close the lever and rack a round into the chamber. Can you picture that? Everything is done from the back end as the bolt actually rotates back and down when the lever is moved forward. It's much easier to understand when you actually see one of these guns.
JB
