Martini Henry fouling ISSUE. PLEASE HELP

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FARMHANDYO

CGN Regular
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Just got into reloading 577/450 Martini. Ran into a problem when firing with the x-ring services .458 parallel sided service bullet. I paper patched each lead round to .469. I also used 85 grains of 2ff GOEX. The problem that I am having is that I have to clean the barrel and breech ALOT in order to chamber another round. I am experiencing a very large amount of fouling that makes the rifle only really usable for one shot before it is taken out of action. This amount of fouling at the breech area should not be happening. Can you Martini Henry shooters help me out? I would greatly appreciate it. My Martini Henry has a mint condition bore and is a Mark 4.
 
Black powder even if you are pp you still need a black powder lube

go to

ht tp://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?38-Black-Powder-Paper-Patching and do some reading
 
FARMHANDYO said:
Just got into reloading 577/450 Martini. Ran into a problem when firing with the x-ring services .458 parallel sided service bullet. I paper patched each lead round to .469. I also used 85 grains of 2ff GOEX. The problem that I am having is that I have to clean the barrel and breech ALOT in order to chamber another round. I am experiencing a very large amount of fouling that makes the rifle only really usable for one shot before it is taken out of action. This amount of fouling at the breech area should not be happening. Can you Martini Henry shooters help me out? I would greatly appreciate it. My Martini Henry has a mint condition bore and is a Mark 4.
Click to expand...

spit. I find spit works WAY (like night and day!!) better than any lube I have used when wiping my muzzle loaders between shots. Just stick a patch in your mouth - take a shot & wipe the bore after ... :)
 
Farmhandyo: You don't mention what kind of lube you're using. Original MH ammunition used a fairly thick beeswax cookie between powder and bullet (plus thin discs of cardboard). Lube is crucial for fouling control. Personally I've only used grease groove bullets in my MH so-far and can shoot all day without cleaning. Also note that in the original ammo the paper patched bullet was dipped in wax followed by "hot gauging" to a full diameter (ie bullet plus paper plus wax) of 0.458". The key is having wax on the bullet and in a cookie that scours the bore.

milsurpo
 
I use a grease cookie that is 1/4 of an inch thick with card wads separating the bullet from the wool filler. My OAL is 3.143 inches. Is this length to long. Is my paper patched bullet contacting the rifling quite sharply on closing the lever? What OAL do you guys use? That could be the issue. I also shoot an 1861 Snider Enfield and do not experience this much trouble when inserting a bullet. This is what I am following to load each cartridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtYQslXdTrs&t=632s
 
I don't shoot much full length 577/450 anymore. Not that I don't like it but my eyes are't what they used to be, so now I shoot 45 colt cartridges in inserts. Still use a grain of Unique under a charge of compressed 3F black powder.

The load I used for the full size round was 6 grains of Unique under 60 grains of 3F black powder. Not a hot load but very close to what the OP is using but with faster burning powder.

The reason I went to faster burning black powder with a smokeless powder starter was to get a better/cleaner burn of the propellant. An old friend/smith and black powder aficionado, Jack Stead from Salmon Arm gave me this recipe about two decades ago. I use a similar recipe in my Snider. I use paper patched bullets, when I have been arduous enough to wrap my bullets. Mostly, I just use as cast bullets that I powder coat. My rifles don't seem to know there should be a difference. The only thing I use for the hollow base bullets is Bondo. I just fill in the base with as much as it will hold and let it harden overnight. Why mess around with precast fillers??

The only other extra I add is a cardboard spacer between the bullet base and the powder column. I'm not sure this is even needed with powder coated bullets. No, I don't worry about what color powder coat to use.

This system works well for me and YES, it's safe. It also eliminates a lot of tedious steps while delivering very good results
 
FARMHANDYO said:
I use a grease cookie that is 1/4 of an inch thick with card wads separating the bullet from the wool filler. My OAL is 3.143 inches. Is this length to long. Is my paper patched bullet contacting the rifling quite sharply on closing the lever? What OAL do you guys use? That could be the issue. I also shoot an 1861 Snider Enfield and do not experience this much trouble when inserting a bullet. This is what I am following to load each cartridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtYQslXdTrs&t=632s
Click to expand...

Haven't viewed the video as I'm at work but would suggest that you chamber a round or dummy round and eject it to see if it's contacting the rifling. Use a sharpy or soot if the lead is too hard to take a clear impression.
Another option is to place a bullet in a fired case sized just enough for a slip fit and see how long it is when removed from the chamber. Might be a little tricky going around the bend into a Martini action.

If the residue is hardening in the throat quickly and the lube needs a little help look into using a blow-tube before each shot.
Maybe experiment with different lubes.
 
Could be your paper is too thick as well. No experience with the Martini Henry, but with my Sharps and paper patch, I have to wipe after every shot. Two wets and a dry.
 
BP lube is specifically formulated to minimise fouling. What is your lube?

If the cartridge chambers cleanly without resistance then your OAL is likely OK. Cycle a cartridge through the action and look at it - is the oal shorter? or is there a series of indentations around the outer ogive? If no to both then you look OK.

It could be that fffg powder might burn cleaner for you.
 
As others have indicated, lube is crtical to keeping BP fouling soft,so each successive shot can clean it out. Although many shooters of my acquaintance report good results using a "bullet nose dip" method - literally dipping the bullet nose of each successive cartridge in a very soft lube (lanolin-based "Udderly Smooth" lotion being a favourite) that really is only practical for paper target shooting at the range.

I use Martini-Henry rifles (and also Snider-Enfield) in what could be called "Victorian-Era Military Action Shooting" - requiring movement through a course of fire taking multiple shots while loading from pouch or bandolier - i.e. "field conditions" - so I need cartridges which permit multiple shots without jamming, chambering or loss-of-accuracy issues from fouling. I use grease-groove bullets, well lubed with a soft formulation suited for black powder (50/50 beeswax and olive oil, melted together ... or, for a "canadian touch", canola oil ... together with a "grease cookie" directly under the bullet, consisting of about 3/16" of the same lube sandwiched between disks punched out of milk carton material.

I can easily chamber and fire a succession of a dozen or more shots without any fouling problems. Here is a video of one such "skirmish" I shot through in Nebraska at the end of June, during which I fire 16 rounds from a Mark III Martini-Henry ...

 
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