Match Dies, are they worth it for me?

Zey

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I'm getting into reloading and I need to get some dies. Is it worth it to bypass standard dies and get match grade?

My interests are precision shooting. My skill level is low, lol. But I'm getting better all the time, so I don't want to reach a level of skill that quickly exceeds the ability of the cheaper dies.
 
Dies are dies... I've had great results with the Lee carbide line and buy only Lee dies nowadays (unless they don't offer a certain caliber I need, of course). If you get them with the factory crimp die, you'll be making commercial-like ammo every time. I also have much more expensive CH4D dies (2 sets), but consider Lees to be better.

On that note, I highly doubt you (or me, or anyone else) will ever be able to exceed the performance of said dies. Either your cartridges turn out perfect or they don't... with the Lee carbide sets, they always seem to. The rest of the skill lies with the understanding of ratios, ballistics and other reloading skills one acquires as he gains experience.

And last but not least, Lee products are inexpensive to buy. A newbie (and often experienced) reloader's best friend. I use their single-stage Challenger press, which is the cheapest and most basic you can get... yet I am able to produce top notch ammo with it without a single hiccup. A Lee Classic Cast press is also on my list of future reloading purchases.

Good luck! You will love the hobby 10x more once you start to produce your own ammo.

;)
 
I'm getting into reloading and I need to get some dies. Is it worth it to bypass standard dies and get match grade?

My interests are precision shooting. My skill level is low, lol. But I'm getting better all the time, so I don't want to reach a level of skill that quickly exceeds the ability of the cheaper dies.

I ran into this delemma myself recently, and got some good advice from an older more exp. fellow.
He said this" are you going to be able to fully utilize the extra cost for a much more expensive die set up" To which I thought, nope I don't think so.

I love loading and shooting, but a micrometer seating die for me isn't some I think is worth the extra money. But hey if you have a bunch of extra dough , you should the best you can afford. FS
 
I've been loading match grade ammo with standard dies for 30 some years. Most of the newer stuff is about marketing.
 
Not sure about the need for precision sizing dies, but I have come to really love my Forster precision bullet seater.

I was having issues with regular seating die getting consistent OALs and the ability to make very small changes with each roung but with my precision set I can dial them into the nearest .001"

IMO if you are going to up your reloading look into a good seating die before sizing.

hHelps mitigate runout better than regular sizing die too apparently.
 
I like my competition seating dies. I am starting to believe that the money spent on bushing dies, neck dies and collet dies would have been better spent on straight, minimum chambers and quality brass.
 
The second half of making precision ammo is to seat your bullet straight.

A well-made floating-bushing type of seater die is well worth it - to my knowledge Redding and Forster make good one. I would assume that the RCBS ones are good. The Hornady New Dimension dies are not good - they have the right idea, but their internal tolerances and clearances are sloppy enough that this completely defeats the idea behind such a design.

While not essential, having a micrometer adjustment on the seating die is very useful. In my ammo loading book I record the reading, so that I can return to it later. For example I loaded some .308 match ammo with a friend yesterday, my loadbook said that the last batch of ammo that I made for him (which shot very well) had been loaded "Redding +077" (translation: plus 77 thou on my Redding seating die,adjusted so that there is contact between it an the shellholder).

The first part of making precision ammo is to make sure that the brass is straight after you've sized it.

I have found some really cheap sizing dies (Lee F/L and Lee collet) to work well and make good straight brass, I have found some really expensive ones to work well (various Redding - body die, fixed neck die, bushing die, etc), and I have found some moderate and even expensive dies to not really make straight brass (or at least make it difficult to do so without some pretty subtle understanding of what is happening).

I don't really have time to go into this at length here, but a prime offender in making crooked brass is an expander ball of a poor design that has too much friction, takes a great deal of force to withdraw from the case mouth and ends up leaving crooked necks and sometimes irregularly stretched necks too (I am specifically ranting on RCBS here). Buttons made of carbide, or made in a more "bullet" shape can be better. One solution to to size your brass without using an expander at all, but there is a lot to discuss to do that right. Or if an expander ball is to be used, to lubricate the inside of the case mouth - which is labourious and messy.

(FWIW I am of the opinion that a micrometer adjustment on a sizing die is a waste - at least I haven't found a productive use for it.)

An important step in making good ammo is to acquire measuring tools, so that you can adjust your dies in a more sophisticated manner than the instructions tell you. E.g. instead of screwing the FL sizing die to contact the shellholder (which works, but usually ends up working the brass too much, and is by far the largest cause of unneeded stretching of cases and trimming, and short case life), you ought to be measuring the headspace dimension of brass fired in your rifle, and adjusting your dies to size your brass only a thou or two shorter. RCBS makes a "precision mic" that does this, there might be other comparable tools on the market now.

If you are loading with a press that uses conventional shellholders, Redding makes a set of shellholders in nonstandard height increments (in steps of two thou IIRC), which allows you to precisely control the headspace sizing dimension with the shellholder in contact with the die mouth.

You don't need a runout gauge on your bench, but it is nice to at least borrow one to use to set up your dies and establish your process. Once you've figured out how to make straight ammo, you can return your buddy's runout gauge ;-)
 
Sometimes new techniques are better ...

Zey .......

Every one of your FL dies can become a "custom" die if you set the die height accurately. The benefts are longer brass life, less run-out, and improved accuracy.

I use the Digital Headspace Gauge.
[Your fired cases are like a casting of your chamber.]

Just zero the gauge on one of your fired cases (at the shoulder). Then measure one of your handloads, and this gauge displays the difference. That difference is the chamber clearance that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular rifle.

Just raise your FL die until it bumps your shoulder back -.001" to -.002" (at the shoulder).

- Innovative
 
Whoa thats a great answer rnbra. I'll have a good look at the dies you suggested.

And when you say run-out gauge, are you talking about a dial indicator?
 
And when you say run-out gauge, are you talking about a dial indicator?

A runout gauge has some means of supporting a cartridge at two places (for example, the base of the case and the tip of the bullet), and a dial indicator (a plunger that turns a dial that reads out in .001" increments). In this setup I've described, the tip of the indicator would be placed on the bullet near the case mouth.

Like these:
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13738_7397_thumb.jpg
6313_4531_thumb.jpg
5578_7525_thumb.jpg


As you rotate the cartridge, it will "wobble" between its two support points, to the extent that it is not perfectly straight, and the indicator will show this movement. "Total indicated runout" ("T.I.R.") is the amount that the needle moves from the minimum to the maximum reading.
 
Too many shooters are worried about run-out. It becomes a moot point IF you use the right reloading equipment and use the right handloading techniques. My handloads never exceed .002" run-out at the very most.

It's boring to keep reading .001" .001" .001" .001" .001" .002" .001" .001".001"

On rare occasions I check run-out just to verify that all is well.

- Innovative
 
For rifle reloading, I use a Forster Co-Ax and Redding Competition dies. I have yet to measure more than 0.002" runout on a Sinclair concentricity gauge. Only a handful of cartridges have measured more than 0.001".

In my opinion, a properly aligned chamber and neck sizing only of brass (floating bushing) is more important. Having a bullet engage the rifling in the highest degree of alignment will result in the greatest accuracy potential.
 
Whoa thats a great answer rnbra. I'll have a good look at the dies you suggested.

And when you say run-out gauge, are you talking about a dial indicator?

You're a very reasonable person. You listen to those who know and not to those whose clock stopped 30 some years ago. :bangHead:

:cheers: Kazimier
 
zey, buy the best dies you can! you will never know if your shooting the best you can until you are loading the best you can! it starts with good equipment!
 
I think that you have to look at the total equation, is the caliber, gun, etc. capable of the kind of accuracy these dies can give? Do you plan on doing all the things required to make the gun accurate, all the case prep., bullet sorting, etc.? If the answer is yes, then i say go for it. I use comp. dies for reloading cast bullets, and swear by the comp. bullet seaters that seat bullets in such a straight line that cases do not require belling.
 
I'm thinking about LEE precision dies, over my standard .308 ones, simply so I don't need to lube the case (the precision, or "yellow boxes", are carbide dies, and LEE says no lube is required).
 
I'm thinking about LEE precision dies, over my standard .308 ones, simply so I don't need to lube the case (the precision, or "yellow boxes", are carbide dies, and LEE says no lube is required).

I'm not sure about Lee's nomenclature.

As far as I know Lee does not make carbide dies for bottleneck rifle cartridges, and even if they did, lube would still be needed.

Lee's collet die (a particular kind of neck sizer) is probably the die in this "yellow box" set, along with a regular full length sizer, and a seater. You don't need to lube cases with the collet die. (and FWIW, the collet die can make very, very good ammo).

You can also buy the collet die separately - this might (or might not!) save you money.
 
If you reload for more than one caliber, and if you can set your FL die height "accurately" - that will save you real money. Then there's no need to buy expensive custom resizing dies.

- Innovative
 
Handloader Magazine a couple of years ago did a comparison between all the major die makers to see if competition dies made a difference.

They used 3 rifles and after setting a base line with primer/bullet/powder/case prep they repeated the same loading every time only used a different set of dies each time.

Basically it boiled down to this.

If you use jacketed bullets then there is a very slight edge to using the Lee Factory crimp die. I mean so slight that we are talking millimeters at 100 yards for average group sizes.

For cast bullets there was no difference at all.

They used the same profile of bullet seater's in each die set so if you are trying to seat something oddball then there is a difference with the higher grade dies that come with different seater plugs.
 
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