Match result wait times
- Thread starter eroc1l
- Start date
In reading through this thread it seems that most are under the impression that posting the scores is all that's involved. It would be nice if that was so, but it isn't. Here's the process that takes place for every competitor:
1. Verify the competitor is a current IPSC member (not all are) from the regional membership list.
2. Verify the cometitors category and classification within the division in which they're shooting from the regional classification list.
3. Enter the competitor, and/or verify their information in the club's WinMSS database.
4. Choose the member as a competitor for the match and enter the division and power factor.
5. Choose the competitor and enter their time, score etc.
A five stage match with 100 competitors will take about 8 to 10 hours to score. That said there's a lot of ways to get the scores out sooner. At my club we try to take the info from match signup and do the first 4 steps in advance. We roundup the score sheets at the end of every relay and score concurrently while the match is in progress. Competitors that stick around for an hour usually can get a peek at where they stand at that point in the day. In a perfect world the results are usually ready to go a couple of hours after the match. However, our world is imperfect, people register and don't show, or they show and shoot in a different division than the one they registered, or they don't register at all and just show up expecting to shoot. Out of 100 competitors I always see at least one name that doesn't appear on the IPSC membership list. Their status has to be confirmed before their score is included. I always end up with several scoresheets in which the name, time or score is illegible. These all contribute to delays in getting the scores out. There's no point in rushing to release results that are not accurate.
As a competitor here's what you can do to get results out sooner:
1. Preregister. Ensure the info you provide is accurate and complete.
2. On your scoresheet ensure your name, division, category, and power factor are complete, accurate and LEGIBLE. Kudos to those of you that have stamps or labels.
3. When you sign the scoresheet on every stage ensure the time, and score totals are correct and LEGIBLE.
As the stats rep for my club I'll do my part to get the results out quickly, please do your part to help the cause.
MY WISH LIST - Having some way of integrating the current IPSC membership list and Classifications into WinMSS. That would save about half the time required to score the match.
My comment on Palm scoring systems - Most clubs here are to small to make the significant financial investment neccesary to purchase and maintain a dedicated system. If someone came up with an Iphone app, that might be a possibility, but then we'd all have to buy an Iphone.
1. Verify the competitor is a current IPSC member (not all are) from the regional membership list.
2. Verify the cometitors category and classification within the division in which they're shooting from the regional classification list.
3. Enter the competitor, and/or verify their information in the club's WinMSS database.
4. Choose the member as a competitor for the match and enter the division and power factor.
5. Choose the competitor and enter their time, score etc.
A five stage match with 100 competitors will take about 8 to 10 hours to score. That said there's a lot of ways to get the scores out sooner. At my club we try to take the info from match signup and do the first 4 steps in advance. We roundup the score sheets at the end of every relay and score concurrently while the match is in progress. Competitors that stick around for an hour usually can get a peek at where they stand at that point in the day. In a perfect world the results are usually ready to go a couple of hours after the match. However, our world is imperfect, people register and don't show, or they show and shoot in a different division than the one they registered, or they don't register at all and just show up expecting to shoot. Out of 100 competitors I always see at least one name that doesn't appear on the IPSC membership list. Their status has to be confirmed before their score is included. I always end up with several scoresheets in which the name, time or score is illegible. These all contribute to delays in getting the scores out. There's no point in rushing to release results that are not accurate.
As a competitor here's what you can do to get results out sooner:
1. Preregister. Ensure the info you provide is accurate and complete.
2. On your scoresheet ensure your name, division, category, and power factor are complete, accurate and LEGIBLE. Kudos to those of you that have stamps or labels.
3. When you sign the scoresheet on every stage ensure the time, and score totals are correct and LEGIBLE.
As the stats rep for my club I'll do my part to get the results out quickly, please do your part to help the cause.
MY WISH LIST - Having some way of integrating the current IPSC membership list and Classifications into WinMSS. That would save about half the time required to score the match.
My comment on Palm scoring systems - Most clubs here are to small to make the significant financial investment neccesary to purchase and maintain a dedicated system. If someone came up with an Iphone app, that might be a possibility, but then we'd all have to buy an Iphone.
While I'm not disagreeing that it's a lot of work, you are however forgetting that it's the majority of shooters who are coming back for the same matches.. You already have those shooters in the WinMSS database, and have already been verified etc (Eg a member is not going to expire his membership from June to July.. )
I assume you re doing this in advance of the match starting?
I am having a really hard time to believe that it take 1 minute to enter one stage into the WinMSS.
Though it would really help to have some kind of direct import from the match registration system into the match scoring system. Maybe this need to be brought up to the Sectional directors and Regional director who could bring it up to the chain. It is a shame we don't have an unified match registration system and results publication system, which could easily address most of such issues.
I assume he's talking about everything...including the match administration (creating the match, entering the stages, adding competitors etc)
That said...8-10 hours would definatly be on the high side...
The last match I scored was Grenville. about 35 shooters 5 stages. From start to finish it took about 2 hours...and that included the match admin...and double checking everyones Classifiction. There were also a dozen or so shooters that were not in my current Database that needed to be added.
I wasn't planning on doing the stats...otherwise I could have done the match admin in advance and saved some time.
I generally don't do all the match admin in advance...I add the shooters after the match is done and I have organised the score sheets. Unless the competitor number assigned by WinMss finds it's way on the the score sheet...you don't really save anytime doing this (in fact it can take longer).
This would be for a Level 1 or a Level 2 match.
Level 3's are a completly different thing...
As a competitor my thoughts are this
Level I: who cares, it's just a level I if it comes out in a month it has no real effect on me personally. Even if it is a 120 round match that I got dinged $35, it's still just a level I
Level II: I'd like to see the scores the next day, usually it's a bigger match with more top shooters that gives a more accurate reflection of my current ability and/ or it is being used for classification or had classifier stages.
Level III/IV/V: one hour after last shot.
Now that's in a perfect world, reality has s nasty was of interfering. At the Sharon Level II earlier this year we had the scores done maybe a half hour after last shot. Unfortunately when we printed the first set we discovered discrepancies. Some score keepers entered the time of day into the scored time box and scribbled the run time in at te top. The score sheets were not the best and led to the confusion. But now roughly 800 score sheets had to be gone through and verified and the corrections made. I think we had them up a day or two later.
Sometimes life sucks and Mr. Murphy is always waiting around the corner waiting.
Now since I'm at the range I'm going to get back to practicing and worry about this another day.
Level I: who cares, it's just a level I if it comes out in a month it has no real effect on me personally. Even if it is a 120 round match that I got dinged $35, it's still just a level I
Level II: I'd like to see the scores the next day, usually it's a bigger match with more top shooters that gives a more accurate reflection of my current ability and/ or it is being used for classification or had classifier stages.
Level III/IV/V: one hour after last shot.
Now that's in a perfect world, reality has s nasty was of interfering. At the Sharon Level II earlier this year we had the scores done maybe a half hour after last shot. Unfortunately when we printed the first set we discovered discrepancies. Some score keepers entered the time of day into the scored time box and scribbled the run time in at te top. The score sheets were not the best and led to the confusion. But now roughly 800 score sheets had to be gone through and verified and the corrections made. I think we had them up a day or two later.
Sometimes life sucks and Mr. Murphy is always waiting around the corner waiting.
Now since I'm at the range I'm going to get back to practicing and worry about this another day.
The larger the match the more it pays to do as much admin in advance as you can. The membership list is alphabetical, the classification list is alphabetical by division. In a small match that doesn't mean much but in a larger match it does. Simply because a shooter appears in your database doesn't mean you don't check their stats. They may be an A class shooter in Production but on that day have chosen to shoot Standard. Has their classification changed? Have they moved into Senior or SuperSenior? The only thing gained by having them in your database is you don't have to enter their name. Some competitors shoot minor in Open or Standard, so you can't go with the default selections. That's why it's so important that the scoresheet be complete and legible.
The reality is that in Ontario there isn't much difference between Level I and Level II matches and as I see certain top shooters don't go to Level 2s at all. Other ones go to Level Is, when they are in convenient location/time.
That was just in reference to when I want to see scores, not which ones to attend. Time permitting, and it hasn't lately, I go to the clubs that I know put on good matches. If they have a history of dumb stages or management issues I'll go practice instead. And I don't care about round count, 120 rounds of dumb stages is far worse than 40 rounds of some real quality stage design.
That brings up an interesting point. In the past...the main difference between L1 and L2 matches was...Level 1's were not used as Classifier matches (and could be sanctioned by a local delegate)
With the new Classifiction system in place...there will be even less of a difference (you will have classifier stages at Level 1 or Level 2 matches)
I guess the distinction will be...round count??
It's so easy to complain about a situation and offer nothing more than vague suggestions as to what others should be doing, eh?
You wanna help? Write iPhone and Android apps to do scoring and real-time syncing with a winMSS installation, and then approach ipsc with the idea of using it. That'd be helpful.
BTW, WinMSS is a Windows based POS which, like almost all Windows crap, is based on the idea of being run by a human sitting with a mouse and keyboard, one operation/record at a time; it has no bulk upload/download capabilities, no automated scripting, nor are any planned. Last time I asked (yes, as hard as that might be for you to believe, you were not the first one to think of this) I was told I was welcome to try and code it up myself. Being an open source developer, I passed on the opportunity to get up close and person with Win32. You're welcome to try; maybe you'd like to actually do something which addresses the problems you ##### about?
Been there, done that. Wrote the code for it.. the issues is not the technology. It was the organization of the data and the distribution to the clubs that was holding it back. Maybe the new board might consider it.. its easier to manage and distribute a central user db then deal with all the duplicates they get (spelling , classifications, divisions etc)
Damian, no one is telling you what to do.
Last time I checked, the WinMSS author was asking for suggestions for improvements and one of the things he was considering is a text-based import/export format. Perhaps you've asked long time ago and now your time had come to ask again, of course, only if you are interested to help. But if you aren't, please let us know, so we will figure out how to deal with that.
PS: you haven't seen me #####ing yet
PPS: the *.mdb (MS Access format) had been reverse engineered long time ago and there is open source libraries for reading and writing it, so the chances are you don't even need to change the WinMSS
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- S.W. Ontario
Ok I laughed........
Just the pick me up I needed before I head to the range for my 4th day of 9 working on the EESA Charity match.
I think working on solutions is a great idea.
I can build stages and run matches but cannot program crap.
Let those who can do "Their part" that way.
