Match rifle .308 or .223

23/4there

23/4there

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I know this question has proably been asked before, but what (in your opinion) is a better caliber for tactical matches. Think BCRA or DCRA.

So is it the hard hitting, powerful .308 or

the inexpensive, go all day .223?
 
If you are building a rifle mainly for the Tac match, I would use a 308, there is not another calibre anywhere close as far as how many people have been there done that with the caliber...all the research is already done for you. However don't pigeon hole yourself into 223 or 308 just because of these matches, there is always the open class to shoot in if you are not concerned with being in the same class as the military and the police. There are many other cartridges out there that perform way better longrange than either the 223 or 308.
 
One thing to think about is barrel twist. If you have a fast enough twist (1:8)to handle the 80 gr bullets, 223 is the way to go. Cheap to load, no recoil and gives up very little to the .308 using 155 gr bullets in the wind.
 
23/4there said:
So you could could get close to the same preformace in .223
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Yep, 80 gr .223 bullets give up very little to .308's with 155's. Both calibers are now allowed for the Bisley Agg at the DCRA matches. As stated before you will need a fast twist 1:8 or maybe a 1:7 twist. The 1:7 might even work with the 90 gr bullets, but DCRA rules only allow up to 80 gr for .223. This might change now that 90 gr .223 bullets are out there, but don't count on it changing quickly.
 
If you felt really ambitious, you would build a single shot Savage or Remington "switch barrel" rifle with two bolts. One bolt/barrel for .223 and a second for 7.62. The stock and sights would fit you every time, and the only problem you might have would be reestablishing the zero. Some shooters have a favourite stock profile for all their prone rifles (small bore and full bore).
 
Interesting... for what type of rifle? I am thinking about this for my Savage 10FPL (round top, 1:8) but haven't found a supplier for 1:7 barrels

Snapshot

mysticplayer said:
I have just ordered a 7 twist barrel in 223. I have just sold the last of my 308 match rifles.

Enough said.

Jerry
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IIRC the 1:7 5.56 barrel was developed for the military tracer projectile, which is very long. Unless you were planning on shooting 90gr. .224 bullets, would there be any point in going faster than 1:8? While the 80gr. .224 bullet can pretty much hold its own against a 155SMK, it falls behind if 175/178s, even the 155Lapua, are used in .308. Nevertheless, there is some very fine long range shooting being done with the .223 and heavy bullets. It does have some very positive features.
 
Idiot question, I really don't pay enough attention these days...

For .223, if one had a 1:8 (for 80gr) or 1:7 (for 90gr), then fired a lighter 55gr bullet.... what would happen as per accuracy? What if one fired an 80gr through a 1:7 barrel?
 
You would probably never notice. 90 gr. bullets are not widely available. The others to 80 gr. are, with good data available. Incidentally, if you want to shoot .223 to long range - 1000y. - a longer than factory barrel can be a good idea. Easy way to boost velocity.
 
longbranch, there would be no problem with lighter weight bullets in a fast twist barrel simply because the 223 is not very fast. If you did the same with a 22/250 or bigger, you could have bullets blow up as the rotational speed could exceed the bullet strength. They usually shoot shotgun sized groups before you go fast enough to blow up.

The big issue will lie in the throat. If shooting the heavier and longer bullets, you will need to move the throat forward quite a ways so that the bullet doesn't take up too much case capacity.

When you shoot the light short bullets, these might not engrave in the lands before leaving the case neck. Poor accuracy is guaranteed.

Ideally, you build your rifle to suit the bullet and intended use. If you are building a custom rifle, ask your smith about the throat details. It matters...

Jerry
 
The reason I picked 223 over 308 is because I want toshoot more. Thats the whole point of shooting right, to do more of it. I can load up 2x as much 223 over the price of a 308, barrel life is way longer as well on 223. i ordered a 1-8 twist barrel and a l ot of people are having good luck with them out to a 1000 meters.
 
mysticplayer said:
longbranch, there would be no problem with lighter weight bullets in a fast twist barrel simply because the 223 is not very fast. If you did the same with a 22/250 or bigger, you could have bullets blow up as the rotational speed could exceed the bullet strength. They usually shoot shotgun sized groups before you go fast enough to blow up.

The big issue will lie in the throat. If shooting the heavier and longer bullets, you will need to move the throat forward quite a ways so that the bullet doesn't take up too much case capacity.

When you shoot the light short bullets, these might not engrave in the lands before leaving the case neck. Poor accuracy is guaranteed.

Ideally, you build your rifle to suit the bullet and intended use. If you are building a custom rifle, ask your smith about the throat details. It matters...

Jerry
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Thanks Jerry, clearly explained. How does this work then with the AR15 family and, say, 80gr rounds... Would 80gr require a custom barrel (chamber actually) that's long enough to take the round, or will it fit in a standard Colt/Armalite/etc. barrel? Would an 80gr or 90gr fit in a standard AR magazine, or would they be too long? I obviously own neither an AR nor .223 rifle, but that might change.
 
HeadDamage said:
You can shoot the 77gr SMK seated to mag lenght in the AR15 or the 80gr SMK sinlge fed (they are too long to use the mag).
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Thanks HD. Does the same apply to the Ruger Mini-14? (stop your snickering :) ) Specifically the Ruger magazine, will it take a 77gr but not an 80gr?
 
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