Twice this fall, I have developed loads with Sierra Matchkings, only to buy a new supply, and find out that the new bullets have different dimensions. In both cases, the new bullets must be seated .012" to .015" longer to reach the lands, and in both cases this is a problem due to the magazine length. Is anyone else noticing significant lot to lot variations with the Matchkings?
Matchking-lot to lot variations
- Thread starter stubblejumper
- Start date
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I haven't noticed any, but then again I haven't bought any MK's in the last year or two, since I have an ample supply on hand already.
That sort of thing is quite common among bullet makers, though, from what I understand. They routinely make small modifications to their bullets without announcing them. I've seen the same thing from Nosler, Barnes, etc.
That sort of thing is quite common among bullet makers, though, from what I understand. They routinely make small modifications to their bullets without announcing them. I've seen the same thing from Nosler, Barnes, etc.
- Location
- calgary alberta
This is not terribly uncommon. Several reasons explain this. 1 the manufacturers are always trying to improve their product, so minor changes to improve the product can be introduced without notice. 2 swaged copper/lead bullets are hard on forming dies and to get replacement dies that are 100% identical would be difficult. replacement dies should not be that far out of whack though. a thou or 2 maybe.
Once I find a bullet and powder combination that a rifle really works well with, I purchase enough to last the life of the barrel all at the same time from the same lots. This helps preclude this issue.
Once I find a bullet and powder combination that a rifle really works well with, I purchase enough to last the life of the barrel all at the same time from the same lots. This helps preclude this issue.
I've seen it, but I've never found it to be an issue. I've never found Matchkings to be particularly fussy about jump, which is one of the reasons I use them instead of bullets with better BCs. In the two 308 barrels that I'm running at the moment (one with about 8000 rounds, one approaching 3000 rounds), I've never changed the seating depth because there's never been a need to.
Variations?
I use the .175 SMK's in my FTR rifle and have found they do vary a bit but not enough to cause me to change the seating depth , i guess it depend on how you are measureing the seating depth , Certaily if you are measureing your oal , cartridge length across the tip of the bullet you will probably get a bigger variation ,. I use a comparator on a digital caliper that measures from the Ogive of the bullet, its a more accurate way of measureing, if the tips of the bullets are dinged up / deformed there would be a lot of variation from bullet to bullet , a comparator measureing off the ogive will give you more accurate results.
I use the .175 SMK's in my FTR rifle and have found they do vary a bit but not enough to cause me to change the seating depth , i guess it depend on how you are measureing the seating depth , Certaily if you are measureing your oal , cartridge length across the tip of the bullet you will probably get a bigger variation ,. I use a comparator on a digital caliper that measures from the Ogive of the bullet, its a more accurate way of measureing, if the tips of the bullets are dinged up / deformed there would be a lot of variation from bullet to bullet , a comparator measureing off the ogive will give you more accurate results.
With both rifles, a 260rem, and a 223, the difference between .025" jump to the lands, and .010" to the lands, is the difference between just over 3/4 moa(.025"jump), and just under 1/2moa(.010" jump). As I usually do, I purchased one box of 142gr for the 260, and 69gr for the 223 for testing, and developed loads with that one box of each. Now, I can't find bullets from the same lots, so I have to use what is now available. It normally wouldn't be an issue but in my case, that extra .015" is causing a problem due to the magazine lengths of each gun.The Tikka Tactical(223) wasn't as much of an issue, as I removed about .015" from the plastic magazine with a round file.However, with the Cooper(260) that isn't an option, so I have been taking .010" or so off of the tip of most bullets with a small file to allow the loaded rounds to fit the magazine.
The 142gr SMK is not a VLD but I suggest that you read "Berger Tips for Loading VLD" first and do some experimenting after.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/
Great resume on Berger bullet design especially the part about Boat Tail Bullet Design, VLD Bullet Design (and maybe Hybrid Bullet Design, there are now hybrids in .224" and 6mm caliber).
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Lines%20and%20Designs.html
Detailled design of 6.5 142gr SMK from from Brian Litz and try to use a pure tangent ogive bullet instead of the SMKs (Rt/R = 1.0 instead of Rt/R = 0.84).
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/264Cal142grSMK.html
Short story: pure tangent ogive bullets (.308 175gr SMK used in M118LR) are the simple and easy way to get great accuracy.
If you want higher (around 10%) BC and can't use hybrid bullets then expect seating depth issues.
My advice: try Berger's BT (boat tail) bullets which pure tangent ogive and should not required a magical seating depth.
- 224 73 gr Match BT Target
- 140 gr Match BT Long Range Target
I noticed this ten years ago, hasn't changed has it. Same product number on box, but with different dimensions on bullets in box. I stopped buying Sierra "toy" target bullets long ago. When Hornady changed its Amax shape from its original long tip VLD to its stubby new design and put it into boxes with the same product number as the original and suckered me into buying 1K of them in midyear shooting, I stopped buying their "toy" match bullets as well.
Berger is the only semi custom production bullet I will use and even with them, their minimum wage workers screw up from time to time and they release bullets for sale outside their quoted acceptance standards. I currently have a batch of 108gr 6mm target boat tails that are well below .243 in diameter. I don't mind them a little big, but hate them small.
NormB
Berger is the only semi custom production bullet I will use and even with them, their minimum wage workers screw up from time to time and they release bullets for sale outside their quoted acceptance standards. I currently have a batch of 108gr 6mm target boat tails that are well below .243 in diameter. I don't mind them a little big, but hate them small.
NormB
I worked the 223 loads up to 24.5gr of IMR 4064 this morning, and the average group size was under 1/2" for five shots using the longer COL in the modified magazine.As long as I can buy the new bullet in volume, I should be good to go, with no more load development required. I have enough of the 142s to last a bit as well, so I will just keep trimming the tips on those until I run out.
Last edited:
I recently got a batch of Hornady 75 gr BTHP Match bullets that are all over the place when it comes to length. I noticed that every round I made was a different length and was wondering whatwas up. Starting measuring bullets and they were up and down based on how tight the HP was. The longer bullets had a very small point and the shorter ones had a larger hole etc...
Sinclair International sells a meplat trimmer if that helps any.
When I bought my first box of 180gr SMK's for my newly acquired 10 BA the bullets in the box could be separated into 3 distinct lots and had 3 different base to ogive measurements.
This was out of a factory sealed box.
I didn't bother calling them since I was still a newbie to target shooting and probably couldn't shoot better than the rifle anyway
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It happens. In general, a small tweak in your charge will get the bullet back into tune.
Berger, when it was a small company, used 1 machine to make each lot of bullets so you had confidence that until the dies crapped out, that lot was pretty much all the same.
Now, they have grown and going through teething pains on various bullets. Still their QC is better then most, and reflected in their pricing.
I am about to get my first batch of JLK bullets. Claims to have the highest QC standards of LR VLD's. I look forward to shooting them in my 223's.
In general, smaller boutique makers have the "time' to keep things consistent by using single dies and presses. Costs more and way slower to get.
Some competitors swear by these companies. others win matches with Sierras and a little TLC.
Shoot them and let the rifle tell you what it needs. There are a lot of stuff that never shows up on paper.
Jerry
Berger, when it was a small company, used 1 machine to make each lot of bullets so you had confidence that until the dies crapped out, that lot was pretty much all the same.
Now, they have grown and going through teething pains on various bullets. Still their QC is better then most, and reflected in their pricing.
I am about to get my first batch of JLK bullets. Claims to have the highest QC standards of LR VLD's. I look forward to shooting them in my 223's.
In general, smaller boutique makers have the "time' to keep things consistent by using single dies and presses. Costs more and way slower to get.
Some competitors swear by these companies. others win matches with Sierras and a little TLC.
Shoot them and let the rifle tell you what it needs. There are a lot of stuff that never shows up on paper.
Jerry
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
I've had the same issue with 68 BTHP and 75 A-Max. I can date both of them as being packaged right at the time they made the box more attractive
. Were they doing some expanding then? Could a change in production proceedures caused mixed lots or a "lot" supplied by several machines?Exactly, if you want consistent bullets they have to come out of the same die. When you buy Matchkings, A-Max's, etc from the big manufacturers you end up with a mulligan stew of different size/shape bullets pressed from multiple dies all mixed together in the same box. They may be close if they're on top of their quality control but will never match the custom boutique manufacturers who take the time to make every bullet in the lot from the same die.
The overall bullet lengths vary slightly in the same box, but the COL that I had to use to reach the lands, varied by much more from box to box. I mostly use Lapua,which seems much more consistent, but because I could get the Matchkings locally(quicker), I tried them. The accuracy was so good that I don't want to bother with more load development, it is just annoying that the dimensions vary by so much. I am going to buy some 500 boxes,and purchase a meplat trimmer to unify the tips and get the loaded rounds to fit the magazines. I am also considering trying the Whidden bullet pointing system.
