Mauser k98 Caliber question

thebutcher

thebutcher

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Okay i know this is a seriously stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway.
I inherited a Mauser k98 from an old friend, the gun was is terrible shape, he scratched up the barrel removing the sights and did who knows what to all the old markings on the gun (minus the Fabrique National Belgium label)I assume he wanted to make it a hunting rifle with out the prints and stamps-what ever.
When I received the gun it had been so long for my friend the he couldn't even tell me the Caliber of it. So off to the gunsmith I go to have him measure it.

Gunsmith measures the muzzle and tells me it looks like a 7 millimeter. Nothing more, Just that its a 7 millimeter.
I asked further 7 m. by what? he responded by saying "most likely 7x57. but I can't be certain"

So my question now is- Would he be correct in saying it is 7x57 or are there other 7 Millimeter calibers that my Mauser could be? (maybe a second proper opinion is in order?) The Smith did say that the barrel appeared to be original.

Thoughts?

P.S.Forgive me as this is my first Milsurp.
 
Not to be mean or anything, but is this a reputable smith? "most likely" are not words you want to hear when trying to gauge for proper ammunition!
 
I Considered him a reputable Smith myself until he used "most likely".
He also told me they never made Mausers in .308 When I asked him if it might be a .308 as a friend droped a .308 shell in to see if it fit. (I was referring to 762x51 guess I was in the wrong on the wording of that one)
 
I don't know mausers but even I know there are ones in .308...... I'm kinda looking for an isreali milsurp, actually


I don't think much of your smith. Hope you didn't have to pay much for a job that a monkey with a caliper could have done equally half-assedly
 
Even if the barrel is original, it sounds like your friend was determined to make a hunting rifle out of it, which could mean the chamber has been reemed/ bolt face opened up. If it were me a second opinion would be in order, by someone that will give results. You can never be too careful!
 
If the barrel is military, it will be 7x57; they didn't chamber any other 7mms.

As to .308, there were no military ones BUILT to hndle the .308W (7.62x51NATO) but there were sure a heap of them CONVERTED to handle it.

Kar98k is, however, a German military designation. The Germans used the 7.92x57 cartridge, called here the 8mm Mauser.

What is the actual BORE DIAMETER by measurement? For a 7mm, it should be somewhere in the .275" - .277" range, with a GROOVE DIAMETER of about .283" - .285"..... if the barrel is in decent shape. Bullet diamater is .284", so try one, point first, in the muzzle, see it if goes in. The OGIVE of the bullet should not enter the bore as far as the straight shank of the bullet.

An 8mm will be considerably larger, running from a bore of .311" - .315". A 7mm bullet will disappear in this one, an 8mm bullet should allow the CASE to stand proud of the muzzle by at least 3mm.

Crude, but it works.
 
"As to .308, there were no military ones BUILT to hndle the .308W (7.62x51NATO) but there were sure a heap of them CONVERTED to handle it."

FN made k98s in 7.62x51 that were purpose built , not conversions, they have the isralie crest on them as well
-T
 
Mark-II said:
I don't think much of your smith. Hope you didn't have to pay much for a job that a monkey with a caliper could have done equally half-assedly
Click to expand...
I don't think much of that smith either now that's for sure, And luckily I didn't have to pay for that extremely poor answer he didn't actually give me. Maybe that's why he only did a half assed job of answering my question.

Second opinion is on the menu today. I know it isn't an 8mm as I had a friend try and chamber and 8mm but it was too big.
 
Kernalvax said:
FN made k98s in 7.62x51 that were purpose built , not conversions, they have the isralie crest on them as well
-T
Click to expand...

^ This. As soon as you mentioned Fabrique National I was thinking Israeli mauser in 7.62X51 (.308)
Here is a pic of an FN for you to compare to yours. FN on top.
The left side of the receiver will say: FAB NAT DARMES de GUERRE HERSTAL BELGIQUE.
DSCN0277.jpg
 
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If I had the rifle in my lap, i would try to chamber a fired 7x57 case. It it had resistance, i would be pretty sure it was 7x57 and would then try to chamber a sized case or a live round.

If it looked like it was a 7x57, I would then fire a round, from the hip, with the rifle canted away from me and then examine the empty case carefully.

Since it is a 98 action, it could have been re chambered to many different calibers, so i would be careful on the first shot.
 
Ganderite said:
If I had the rifle in my lap, i would try to chamber a fired 7x57 case. It it had resistance, i would be pretty sure it was 7x57 and would then try to chamber a sized case or a live round.

If it looked like it was a 7x57, I would then fire a round, from the hip, with the rifle canted away from me and then examine the empty case carefully.

Since it is a 98 action, it could have been re chambered to many different calibers, so i would be careful on the first shot.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I'd be less inclined to experiment and just take her to a real gunsmith. A smith who "ballparks" caliber is more a gun mechanic than a smith.
 
tootall said:
Find a REAL gunsmith that knows how to do a chamber cast.
Click to expand...

^^^^ this,

a gunsmith who couldn't tell me if a rifle is chambered 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser and 7.62X51 or 30-06 and actually measure the chamber accurately should go and work on, oh may be, iron fences.

As far as I know Mauser's came in all of those calibres ( and of course 6.5 Swede).

I'm curious about the answer if they were in fact ever manufactured in 7.62NATO.
To the best of my knowledge FN made new Mausers for the IDF that were later rebarrelled and converted to 7.62NATO.
That why the Israeli Mausers all have the big 7.62 on the receiver.

Brasil manufactured at least some 30-06 in the fifties and some were converted (mostly Norwegian).
 
There's a bunch of Colombian ones here made by FN that say .30 on the bridge, and have been rebarreled to 7.62 NATO.
Chamber cast is indicated, as so many have been altered by sportsmen.
 
I had it looked at earlier today and the guys form Pro Line shooters were very helpful. we determined it is either a .308 or a 30-06. but I will have the barrel cast so I can be sure.
The guys at pro line put a lead piece in to size the end of the barrel and then calipered that. the result was a .308, they also felt that the barrel was an original.
I will have it cast just to be more accurate.
Thanks for the pis from the earlier poster, unfortunately all my stamps and markings were scrubbed off the top of the receiver but there was the fabrique national on the left side of the receiver.
Will update when I find out more.
 
.
FN did make some 98 Mausers for the Belgian Army in 30-06 Calibre. They had a greenish-gray parkerized finish on them. If you know someone who reloads 30-06, then have them resize an empty case, leave the primer and powder out, but seat a bullet. That will give you a dummy round to try.
.
 
Kernalvax said:
"As to .308, there were no military ones BUILT to hndle the .308W (7.62x51NATO) but there were sure a heap of them CONVERTED to handle it."

FN made k98s in 7.62x51 that were purpose built , not conversions, they have the isralie crest on them as well
-T
Click to expand...

Do you have documentation on these "purpose built" FN Rifles. The 7.62x51 Nato cartridge was not in existance when these rifles were made, and later FN supplied the FN-FAL rifles to Israel and that is when the Mausers were converted. Some of the rifles FN built had the FN markings on them, and some had the Israeli Defence Forces crest, and if they are stamped "7.62" on the receiver or butt stock, then they were originally supplied as 8x57 (8mm Mauser) rifles.

Here is a quote.

" As the Arab-Israeli conflict approached, the Haganah and other Jewish forces in Palestine tried to get hold of as many weapons as they could in the face of an arms embargo by British colonial authorities. One of most important purchases was a secret January 14, 1948, $12,280,000 worth contract with Czechoslovak Government including 4,500 P-18 rifles, as well as 50,400,000 rounds of ammunition. Later, the newly established Israel Defense Force ordered more numbers of Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles, produced this time by Fabrique Nationale. These have Israeli and Belgian markings on the rifle as well as the emblem of the IDF on the top of the rifle's receiver. The FN-made Karabiner 98k rifles with the IDF markings and emblem on the rifle were produced and sold "legally" to Israel after it established itself as an independent nation in 1948. At some point, Israel converted all other Mauser 98-based rifles in their inventory (most commonly Czechoslovak vz. 24 rifles, but small numbers of contract Mausers from sources ranging from Ethiopia to Mexico were also known to have come into Israeli hands) to the now standardized Karabiner 98k configuration. The original receiver markings of these conversions were not altered, making it easy for collectors to identify their origin. The Israeli Karabiner 98k utilized the same bayonet design as in German service, with a barrel ring added. The Israeli bayonets were a mix of converted German production and domestically produced examples.

During the late 1950s, the IDF converted the calibre of their Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles from the original German 7.92 mm round to 7.62 mm NATO following the adoption of the FN FAL rifle as their primary rifle in 1958. The Israeli Mauser Karabiner 98k rifles that were converted have "7.62" engraved on the rifle receiver. Rifles with original German stocks have "7.62" burned into the heel of the rifle stock for identification and to separate the 7.62 NATO rifles from the original 7.92 mm versions of the weapon still in service or held in reserve. Some Karabiner 98k rifles were fitted with new, unnumbered beech stocks of recent manufacture, while others retained their original furniture. All of these converted rifles were proof-fired for service."
 
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