Mauser M98 action questions

H

Husa-Monster

Member
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Location
Vancouver Island
In the process of building a sporting rifle from an old M98 mauser action. Got a deal on a 270 cal. barrel along with the action, so a 270 winchester seemed the obvious choice, but I've been looking at the possibly of doing a 270 Weatherby Magnum instead. Since this project is a first for me, I was hoping some of the more experienced smiths around here could answer a question or two.

Is there any reason why the mauser action cant take the "stress" from the little magnum?

And, what problems, if any, could arise from opening up the bolt face to accept the approx. 1/16 larger rim of the Weatherby Mag. case?

Thanks for any help.

Joe
 
There is mixed opinion on whether it is a good idea to convert an "old M98 Mauser action" to use a high intensity magnum cartridge. Backthrust and resulting action stress will be increased.
Its been done.
Brownells and Kuhnhausen recommend against it. If you don't have a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on gunsmithing Mausers, you should get it.
The boltface can be opened. This is pretty straightforeward.
The magazine and receiver rails will need to be modified more for the magnum than for the .270.
Not all Mauser actions are created equal. What is the origin of yours?
 
My action is a Polish Radom action from 1936.

I have Mr. Kuhnhausen's book - which is full of great information, and so far has been my principle guide through my build. His magnum conversion recommendations are mainly to not exceed the maximum overall length of the 30-06 cartridge. Otherwise feed ramp modifications are needed, and less material is a bad thing. The 270 Weatherby case has a longer shoulder length, but the maximum OAL is actually shorter than the 30-06/270 Win OAL.

kuhnhausen's other suggestion is to work up loads because of higher pressures. Chamber pressure is my main concern. There is no SAAMI spec for the 270 Weatherby. Info I've found is that Weatherby loads their 270 to approx 70,000 psi. While the common Mauser conversion calibers are on average 5,000-10,000 psi less. Opinions?
 
A 98 action will handle a standard short magnum (.270 Wby) with no problems. However it requires someone skilled to alter the action and bolt to feed this round. It may also require a bolt handle alteration and a low scope safety installed and drilling and tapping. It will cost you more to alter this action than it does to buy a good used rifle.
 
I'm a machinist and welder, so preforming all the metal work chores on this project wont be a problem. Agreed that if I was to pay someone to do all the work that it would be cost prohibitive.

I've already got a 25-06 and a 30-06, so filling in the gap in the middle with a standard 270 seems boring. No finalized decision has been made yet, but the ladies like the magnums.....:adult:
 
You may have machinist skills and welding skills but do you know what you need to do. What area's of the bolt require heat treating after the bolt handle is cut and welded and shaped? How to alter the action so it will feed properly? ... and the bot face and extractor modifications? Is this a learning experience?
 
I converted many 98 Mausers but never to any "short" magnums never mind to long ones. I think, if you desire more power the best option for you would be 35Whelen. Those pre WWII Radom Mausers are very rare and might bring you mucho coin, use instead one of the plentiful WWII German m98 actions for conversions.
 
You can convert a standard M98 to handle almost anything...case in point is Harry Selby's 416 Rigby which was built on a standard M98 action. That said, before heading off into the "long grass" of gunsmithing you had better have yourself well squared away. Opening up a bolt face is a whole different kettle of fish than spinning on a barrel. And, of course, you can buy a used rifle for well less than it costs to modify a military Mauser but I know that some of us would rather hunt with a work of art than the product of some guy on the assembly line that may or may not have the knowledge or desire to create something of high quality.

Frankly, current factory rifles are lethally boring.
 
BigUglyMan said:
I know that some of us would rather hunt with a work of art than the product of some guy on the assembly line that may or may not have the knowledge or desire to create something of high quality.
Click to expand...

I see far more bubba'ed up 98's than 'works of art' 98's from guys 'learning the ropes' so to speak.

The 'works of art' are out there from guys with many years of specialized dedicated work.
 
I've got a standard K-98 converted by an Alberta full time locksmith/part time gunsmith to 458x2inch American. I dare say this skilled gentleman spent alot of time with a file, getting those feed rails at just the right width to feed those bigger H&H Magnum casings just right.
 
Thanks everyone for your help and opinions.

Gunrunner8 my action is far from a "numbers matching" specimen, came to me in a box disassembled and incomplete. The 35whelen suggestion is interesting, but I got nice barrel in 270 cal along with the action - all for a steal of a deal.

guntech - yes, this is a "learning experience." I appreciate your concern, and I don't know everything for this project. But like others have pointed out, I'm not the first to undertake such a project. I have a good understanding of whats required and with 15 years using the tools required I think I'm capable. Your opinions and experience are valued and welcomed, the arrogance isn't. Advice on how to preform some of the mods required would be prefered, instead of being told that I'm wasting my time and that I'm just going to screw it up, like others before me.
 
Last edited:
Many, many 98 actions have been reworked into fine sporting rifle actions. For a custom rifle, it would be easier to start with a sporting action - breaking one of the sporting Mausers that Trade Ex sells for its action would be a possibility.
The steps to convert a 98 are well established. Bolt altered for scope, rear receiver bridge recontoured, receiver drilled and tapped, new trigger mechanism, perhaps with a safety, a new safety will be needed if a scope is mounted. Recontoured or replaced trigger guard. Polish all surfaces and refinish. Lots of stock options, if one isn't going to be whittled out of a plank.
 
Husa-Monster said:
guntech - yes, this is a "learning experience." I appreciate your concern, and I don't know everything for this project. But like others have pointed out, I'm not the first to undertake such a project. I have a good understanding of whats required and with 15 years using the tools required I think I'm capable. Your opinions and experience are valued and welcomed, the arrogance isn't. Advice on how to preform some of the mods required would be prefered, instead of being told that I'm wasting my time and that I'm just going to screw it up, like others before me.
Click to expand...

I got the impression that you feel it will be easy to alter your action and make it a magnum, just a simple job. You have a book and machining and welding skills. Maybe that was wrong but it was my impression. I was pointing out what I have observed and my experiences over the last 45 years. I hope it works out well for you. I did not say you were wasting your time nor did I say you would screw it up.
 
If you have the machinist skills, go for it. The 98 mauser action will be fine for a magnum cartridge. I have a 458 Win Mag I built on a mauser 98. Grinding the feed rails is a bit of a challenge, but it can be done. It looks like you are doing good research before starting. Make sure you heat sink the bolt before you do any welding on it. The lugs are particularily important to ensure you don't mess up the heat treatment. There are bolt bending and re-welding jigs for mauser bolts that would probably be a good investment for you. Not expensive. Expect to make a few mistakes. That's how you learn. Enjoy. Cheaper to buy a new rifle? Yup. A new plastic rifle just isn't the same...

ps. "gunsmith kinks" from brownells is a great reference for those little "why didn't I think of that?" ideas.

pps. You are where I was about 20 years ago, except I had no machining skills whatsoever! I bought a lathe and had to learn how to use it. Sure made a lot of mistakes, but I learned over time the tricks and tips to be able to assemble a match winning DCRA rifle (Grand Aggregate winner in Winnipeg, not me, shooter was the guy who owned the rifle). I now have two lathes and can tinker to my hearts content. Life is good.

ppps. If you want to open up the bolt face, it can be done with a steady rest, or if you don't have one (I don't), cut off the bolt handle (you're going to replace it anyways) and put the bolt in a four jaw chuck, true it up, and cut the bolt face with a carbide bit since the bolt face is hardened. Do not cut into the bolt face itself, as the face is heat treated too.
 
Last edited:
Husa-Monster said:
Thanks everyone for your help and opinions...
Click to expand...
These are gunsmith only projects these days. The cost of doing all that far outweighs the price of a new or good quality used rifle.
It was cheaper to do all this back in the 1950's and several shops honed their skills to make excellent born again Mausers from WWII guns.
It comes down to this. Do you want that particular action made into what you want? Will it make you happier than a modern rifle and the fact you built it?
In the end it will be yours, the money you've put into it you'll never recover. Many have gone down this road with mixed results and a reason why you got the parts at a bargain.

Having said that, I built up a few bubba'd Mausers I bought from the EE and TradeEx. Did I learn something?
Yes, these military actions are nowhere smooth as a modern one, never made any money on them and won't do it again.
Theres an AGI Gunsmithing video on rebuilding a Mauser. This will give you good idea what's involved. I still enjoy watching that guy build it plus the heavy Brownells advertising.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again for your insight guys. I'm very familiar with the "Money Pit" scenario lejarretnoir. I have built several expensive 4X4's, and have never once came close to even seeing a reasonable return on investment of time or money. "Educations are expensive" - as I was told early on in my apprenticeship by my foreman - but they are usually worth the costs. At this point, I have less than $300 "invested" so far, for barrel, action, aftermarket trigger and a few other odds and ends I was missing (not counting the B&C stock I splurged on for this project.) So I would rather make my mistakes learning on this, rather than say an aftermarket action and barrel combo that costs a couple thousand more. I'm hoping the skills and knowledge will set me on a path that will eventually lead to building myself a truly sweet custom setup, whether it be a range queen or a truly unique hunter. Hell, maybe ill get lucky and surprise myself with this one - even a blind monkey finds a banana once in awhile!

PS - Rick, its nice having a key to a multimillion dollar machine shop, along with a "feel free to use anything in your off time" attitude from my boss. I was planning on setting up the bolt in the milling machine, using a table chuck to hold it perpendicular to the table. Then I could dial the face in, and with an endmill (solid carbide of course, only HSS in our shop are drill bits,) offset slightly in an offset boring head. I could then enlarge the bolt face and recut the relief in one motion.
 
Usually bolt faces are opened on a lathe, the bolt being supported with a steady, using a tool ground to the appropriate shape. No reason it couldn't be done as you describe.
 
.
I am wondering what is the purpose and reason for going to the .270 Weatherby Magnum, rather than the standard .270 Winchester or .270 Ackley Improved? Certainly the .270 standard cartridge has given excellent performance on almost all North American Game Animals, and if a bit more velocity is required, then the .270 AI would provide that without a lot of action modifications. Is this going to be a hunting rifle, a range rifle, or a "I built it myself" rifle?

Too many people are enamoured by velocity, but the fact is that a couple of hundred feet per second from the same bullet, within practical hunting ranges, is really of no consequence. The difference in trajectory is measured in fractions of an inch, and if both hit in the same place, the same result will occur. However, accuracy tends to suffer as a result of more muzzle blast and recoil. It is no good having something going like a Bat out of Hell if it can not hit something in the proper place. Velocity does not kill something, accurate shot placement and penetration does.

If it is for "uniqueness", then going from a standard .270 to a .270 AI would give you that. Those blown out cases do attract attention on the range. In any case, I would get pictures of stocks that you like the look of, and download them onto your computer so you can review them and decide which one is appropriate for your project. The better custom gun makers display their best pieces, and gun magazines can be useful too. Buy a properly seasoned gunstock blank from a company that specializes in that type of wood, and not the local lumber yard. Good Luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom