Maverick 88 or 870 Express

They're both great shotgun designs, both have proven themselves and been around for many years.
The OP asked about 88's and the Express, not used Wingmasters.
It's pretty much a toss up, depends on which controls you prefer.

No logical reason to shyt on either of them.
 
I am leaning more to the 88. It's lighter and the action is much more robust. But, I noticed that the SXP's are on sale now for $399 ;)
 
444shooter said:
I am leaning more to the 88. It's lighter and the action is much more robust. But, I noticed that the SXP's are on sale now for $399 ;)
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The 88 action is lighter yes, but more robust than an 870 ? Can you be a little more specific on that ?
 
2 extractors helps it run more reliably. I hear complaints regarding the 870's single spring loaded extractor. Weak point in 870 design if you ask me. In a cheap shotgun, reliability is the #1 concern.
 
madashell said:
I'd choose the 870.

And I don't understand the "they ain't finished like they used to be" comments.

IT'S THE EXPRESS LINE..... of course it's not hot blued or parkerized !

The express gets a bad rap, the one I had was actually pretty darn good for the money.

I do agree they should polish the chamber a bit better but other than that it's fine.
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^EXACTLY! Are they finished like a Browning BPS, an 870 Wingmaster? Nope! But guys won't neglect nice guns. Express? My experience working on a few of them~some owners must think "cheap gun, put it away wet, who cares?" then complain to their buddies that the POS "rusts in seconds". lol For a light-carry, inexpensive grouse gun...a 20ga. Express is a great choice in my opinion. We have one in our house, a 21" barrel "Youth" model. Great for long carries, looks almost like the day we bought it over 4-5 years ago. Why? It gets the same TLC my Citori does. Treat it right, it'll do the same for you.

You didn't ask about the Mossberg 500. I think for a modest-cost shotgun, this should be an "870 or 500" question...or...see below. :)

struff55 said:
If you plan using it on grouse no steel shot old wingmaster Ithaca 37 or model 12 the two mentioned are crude and have inherent problems
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For lead shot only, I think a used 37 or 870 Wingmaster would be great choices. Barrels are fixed choke in both (unless the Wingmaster is newer) so I'd be looking for a MOD choke barrel. Don't let a FULL one deter you though~easy to get opened-up to MOD...or threaded for tubes. As for the difference between them? I've never had problems in the field with either gun but if one was to have an issue, it's the 870 I'd have no problem working on. If it's the 37~the hunt is over for the day. Which would I rather carry all day between those 2? The 37...but I've carried both a long ways.
 
EXACTLY .22LRGUY.

Far too many are not being properly cared for.

Like I said, I DO agree Remington should be polishing the chamber a bit better for extraction issues, and even though it's an easy fix it should be taken care of by them.

- I do not have a problem with the polymer trigger plate, and in some ways prefer it on the 870 (not on the Mossberg stuff though, it's more fragile, prefer their metal version).
- in reality there's not that much problem with the MIM extractors
- although I prefer the Wingmaster/Police ball detent, the newer mag cap ratchet retention system works just fine
- I've had no problem with the Express finish because I kept it oiled and got right to it after a wet day outside
- Sure, the internal finishing is rougher on the Express compared to the Wingmaster/Police, but it's not that rough. Actually, mine was't that bad at all.

Only got rid of it because I just didn't need as many 870's as I had but would have had no issue keeping it.

Also agree for not that much more should be looking at the Mossberg 500 over the 88.
 
Its been my recent experience that, with just a little work, an 88 can made into a dependable, reasonably easy to cycle, pump shotgun. That said I'm not sure why if you have the means you wouldn't purchase a 500 instead. Particularly around here where shotguns are commonly carried for personal protection, a pet peeve of mine is people who treat their life saving equipment like clubs; my axes are in in better shape than some of the guns I've been asked to attend to. I recently cleaned an 870 that was so rusty that the receiver and barrel had pitted, and even a rub with fine steel wool, followed by an immersion for several hours in a hot oil bath, did not remove the stain. This was not a 30 year old gun, it was an 870 recently acquired for bear security, and from the look of the bore, had never had never had a round fired through it. When I get a gun like that to clean, I should double my price. This idea that a low cost gun can be beaten and abused leaves something to be desired.

But back to the topic at hand; IMHO, the Mossberg line including the 88, 500, and 590 pump guns have significant advantages over their Remington 870 counterparts. Remington has an annoying habit of using rivets rather than screws, in places here a screw would benefit the end user. For some reason, broken ejectors are a common malady around here, perhaps folks are allowing the magazine cap to work loose, or perhaps to show co- workers how gun savvy they are, they remove the barrel, but fail to line up the ejector with the barrel recess, jam the barrel back in, and the tip of the ejector breaks off at the front rivet. Mossberg's ejector is retained with a screw. If you're lucky, the ejector can be reshaped with a file to get it through the season, but more often or not, the gun has to be shipped out. Another Remington between the bolt and the receiver, tying up the action. The placement of the safety on the 870 frankly sucks, if you're going to have a cross bolt safety, it should be like the 88, located at the front of the trigger, rather than behind it. Modern firearms handling trains us to keep our trigger finger straight along the frame until our sights are on target, then back on the frame when the sights come off target, the placement of the 870 safety doesn't work intuitively if this doctrine is followed. The other Mossbergs have a tang safety, which eliminates the issue. The Mossberg guns have dual extractors, which I consider superior to the single extractor on the 870, this may never be a problem unless you happen to lose one, as was the case of a Marine Magnum I worked on last year. The plunger had rust frozen in the bottom of the bolt recess, and the extractor simply fell out. Stainless does not mean that daily maintenance can be ignored, particularly in a sal####er environment. Another plus for the Mossberg is that the bolt release is behind the trigger guard, therefore the gun can be cycled without need of breaking your firing grip. This comes up if you simply want to check to ensure the round has fed into the chamber, or if you need a different type of load chambered from the one that's there, say a slug in place of birdshot, or a cracker shell in place of a slug.
 
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I've owned Mossberg 500, Remington 870 Express, Remington 870 Wingmaster, Ithaca 37, Winchester Model 12, and now a Benelli Nova.

THEY ALL WORKED.

My Mossberg 500 when new would drop rounds from the mag tube out the bottom onto the ground when cycling. I attributed this to the mag tube not being screwed in all the way tight, so I tightened it and loc-tited it. Others have had the same problem with the timing of the shell stop and interrupter. This problem is somewhat common.

Now, I came across this video about the shell elevator pivot joints popping out of alignment in the receiver causing a jam if dropped. Never had this happen on my Mossberg, but it's good to know about. There's a few videos on YouTube about it. Skip to 5m20s to skip to the demonstration...


[youtube]87XSOnQrCYg?t=5m22s[/youtube]
 
One thing I have read about the 88 and 500 is the plastic trigger assembly. They have a reputation of breaking and pretty much renders the gun unusable. The 590 has a metal assembly.
 
444shooter said:
One thing I have read about the 88 and 500 is the plastic trigger assembly. They have a reputation of breaking and pretty much renders the gun unusable. The 590 has a metal assembly.
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True and good point. BUT, this pertains to Older Mossbergs. There are two plastic locking tabs at the front of the trigger plate that are more prone to shearing if hit with a force perpendicular to the trigger assembly. This has been addressed with beefed up locking tabs on modern Mossbergs or is a non-issue on aluminum trigger assemblies i.e. 590-A1.

Link to some images and comparison with modern Mossbergs: http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/trigger-assembly-review.10403/

"There seems to be no shortage of confusion in regards to Plastic and Metal Triggers. Today we will address some of the common misconceptions regarding Trigger Assemblies. Illustrations are at the end. Any errors in this post are due to my sheer stupidity and are solely my responsibility.

All Mossbergs, including 590s, have plastic triggers. The sole exception is the "Milspec" M590A1 with its metal trigger, aluminum safety, and heavy barrel. All 500/590 trigger assemblies are compatible within their specific gauge. Even Maverick 88 will interchange, although this is not recommended due to the Safety.

The 'Plastic' trigger assembly is high-strength polymer and the 'Metal' trigger assembly is aluminum, not steel. So what is the difference? In regards to raw strength, very little. Neither one will rust. The aluminum trigger weighs slightly more. The polymer trigger has no finish to wear off and will not feel Cold & Slick. I'm no materials engineer, and I hate Glocks, but Polymer compares favorably to Aluminum.

The Old Timers tell us never to buy Mossberg because the trigger will break. Most of us have never seen a broken trigger. The truth is that 500/590 trigger assemblies do break. Or at least they used to.

In spite of popular theory the trigger guard does not break. The locking lugs sheer off. Mossberg addressed this issue way back in the 1980s. The locking lugs on the trigger assembly were beefed up which required a larger cut in the receiver. This is why late model triggers will not fit old guns.

The aluminum triggers were never beefed up. To this day they're made the way they've always been made.

Another difference is the take-down pin retainer. The polymer triggers have a U-shaped leaf spring that can and have broken. The aluminum triggers use a captured spring-and-ball detent.

The polymer trigger is by no means weak, and may be stronger. But it has a poor pin retainer. And across the board, the aluminum triggers always have a light, tight, and solid trigger pull.

So what is the verdict? If you have a standard 500/590, do not go out and spend big bucks on something that is not an upgrade. If you're lucky enough to have an M590-A1, appreciate the gun for the workhorse that it is. And if your old Mossberg needs a new trigger an Aluminum assembly may be your only option."

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444shooter said:
I am leaning more to the 88. It's lighter and the action is much more robust. But, I noticed that the SXP's are on sale now for $399 ;)
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I've owned 6 SXP's (still have 2), numerous 870's, 1 M88, 3 Ithacas, and 4-5 BPS's.

I like the SXP's and wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
 
444shooter said:
So, just an update. Ended up going with the 870 Express in 20ga. Nice and light with the laminate stock.
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Congrats. Good choice . Also any problems normally are with the 12ga for some reason not the others like 20ga etc.
I have express 870 in 16, 28 and 410 and they work just fine
Keep them oiled however as others have stated
Cheers
 
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