Max length barrel Rem 700 support

cycbb486

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
30   0   0
I am trying to find out what the maximum length barrel that a Rem 700 action could support without to much strain on the action. Any ideas out there? Has anyone done anything say at 30-32 inches? Would it require sleeving the action if one were to go that long?


Calvin
 
I must admit I do not know the exact answer to your question but I think more important than the length is the actual contour and weight of the barrel.
 
cycbb486 said:
I am trying to find out what the maximum length barrel that a Rem 700 action could support without to much strain on the action. Any ideas out there? Has anyone done anything say at 30-32 inches? Would it require sleeving the action if one were to go that long?


Calvin

Calvin,

I shoot 700 Rem short and 700 Rem long actions in pillar bedded stocks. I use full Heavy Varmnt barrel contours... 1.250" dia at the action to 5" from action then tapering to .9" at 29 inches. My barrels are 30" to 31" long. There is no problem with the rifles in the bedding/bending of action dept.

NormB
 
Calvin are you talking SA or LA. The set up would probably work without any damage to the receiver but you definitely will strain it, anything will, the question is will it be enough to grossly affect accuracy? Since the right rail on the Rem is so tiny you will definitely have more flexing to the right as the right rail gives. The Tikka M55 with the offset magazine has a nice stiff right rail, but you can't put a vary large diameter barrel on it since the receiver is only about 1.050" wide (if memory serves me correctly). Well I suppose you could put a larger diameter barrel on it but it would look rather unsightly.

Most guys that go 30+ tend to do it with a barrel block, a stout custom repeater or with a single shot action. I suspect the movement in the standard repeater would be too much for any serious accuracy work.

It would be interesting to see if a Rem 700 LA accurized with bolt sleeves (.001" clearance @ front and rear of bolt) would still work freely with all that weight on it. I have my doubts... especially if the barrel is 1.25 at the chamber HV contour with 30+ inches of length.

Lilja may talk about this on his site as well. Another good source to check.
 
I am talking a short action. I would like to stay around a .900 at the muzzle. It would definately be in the only caliber worth chambering for outside of the 6PPC, the 6BR.:D :D :D This is just a possibility. I am waiting to see how the tests on 6mmBR.com turn out. These are the tests being done by Jackie Schmidt with his rail gun chambered in a 6BR. He is starting at 32" and cutting the barrel down 1" at a time to about 26-28" to see how length really affects the velocity of the BR and to see the true agging capabilities of it.


Calvin
 
Calvin, I suspect he is using a barrel clamp right?
 
### International said:
Calvin, I suspect he is using a barrel clamp right?

I believe so Joe. I have found out from a few F class shooters down in the states who are shooting Rem 700 with 30" 1.25" cylinder barrels free floated all the way with no block. They say it seems to work fine. I will have to see if they have had the bolt bushed in front and rear.


Calvin
 
Action flex to the extent that it would be detrimental at all is mostly in the mind of the beholder! If the receiver ring is well bedded, there is very little flex at all. It is just another thing to obsess about. How do I know this? Because, unlike many of those who agonize and theorize about it, I've tested and measured to see what effect hanging a weight out at the end of a barrel might have.
To do this test, I used a 12 pound weight which was hung at the end of a 26 inch barrel. The action (a long Remington 700) was glass bedded into a fiber glass stock. The barrel was totally free floated. A magnetic base was used to mount a dial indicator which was arranged to measure the deflection (a) at the middle of the mag cutout on the right rail, (b) at the same point but with the base mounted at the tang, and (c) at the front of the receiver ring with the base mounted as at (b).
The first series of tests was done with only the tang screw tightened.. The front screw was backed out one full turn.
With the magnetic base mounted on the receiver ring and the indicator touching at a point on the right rail, 3 inches from the center of the receiver ring, indicated deflection was .0016" with the 12lb weight suspended from a point 24.5" in front of the receiver ring. The indicator moved AWAY from the rail which would indicate that the action was deflecting downward at the front of the ring. With the base mounted on the tang, indicated deflection was .0006" with the rail apparently bowing upward. With the base set on the tang and indicating off the front of the ring, deflection was about .0004"
Next, I tightened the front screw normally ( about 40 inch pounds) and rechecked. Now the deflection in the first setup was about .0005". In the second setup deflection measured .0002" and in the third there was no measurable deflection.
A snug fitting mandrel which would slide into the received with moderate effort without the weight on the barrel, would slide in with the same effort with the 12 pound weight suspended. It would also slide in with moderate effort with 25 pounds suspended from the muzzle.
Now, 12 pounds concentrated at the muzzle end is considerably more stress on the receiver than even a 30inch full blank (a 1.250 30 cal blank weighs in at about 10lb and a 5 pound upward pressure at the muzzle will neutralize the weight at the front of the receiver ring.)
So, what's my conclusion? You can imagine your poor Remington 700 receiver twisting up like a wet noodle as it struggles to support that heavy barrel if you like but it's not really happening. An improper bedding job is going to do a lot more distorting than that barrel ever could.
The 700 action does flex but that flexing occurs mostly from the stresses of firing not from the weight of the barrel.
Having said all this, I also must say that there is little question that stiffer is always better ( we're speaking of rifle accuracy here by the way) and anything which will improve stiffness will probably improve accuracy and consistency. Regards, Bill.
 
Bill you must have some time on your hands...good work! :) I’m glad someone took the time to do this test.

One thing though…….applying a 5lbf at the muzzle will not neutralize the weight at the front receiver ring. It minimizes and pretty much eliminates the bending stresses associated with the cantilevering barrel and I think that’s what you mean. There is still a 5lb force at the front receiver ring as well.

Prior to placing the weight on the barrel, did you try eliminating the induced deflection in the receiver due to the weight of the original 26" barrel? I suspect you already had some preload in the receiver from the original barrel weight when the dial indicator was zeroed to measure the impact of the 12lb weight. Granted it probably wasn't much, but sure there was some movement..... I see everyone now doing this test at home.....kidding of course but it would be interesting to see what happens with all the different actions.

With the generous clearance of most actions, I didn't think there would be an issue w.r.t. bolt contact or binding, but when you start approaching .001" clearance at both rings, it could start to play a role.

Some interesting points. The retaining points (threaded screws into the receiver) are not actually good examples of true pin connections since they do not allow the action to deflect freely. The recoil lug fully seated against the stock lug also tends to help resist the bending or complex convex shape the receiver takes on from bending. Obviously the longer the lug and thicker the lug, the more it would help prevent this bending as long as it is held tight against the stock recoil lug. If you put a dial axially at the end of tang, a person may be able to see how much the barrelled action moves forward...

What also happens and to a much lesser degree is the tang flexes as well, since on the Remington and some others, the tang cantilevers off the rear receiver bridge. One of the actions made in Finland, modelled after the Tikka M65/55 actions moves the rear tang screw directly under the rear receiver ring. This increases the force in the rear screw due to the reduced torque arm, but it also minimizes additional dreaded receiver flex at the rear. Does this deflection mean anything.....in the real world....probably not, but if your making something from scratch, why not try to eliminate as many variables as long as it doesn't add to much to the cost or sacrifice some other feature.

A stiff stock, I.E. aluminum or Steel frame would help isolate the receiver movement, but since you don't shoot from something like this it is really irrelevant.

Once you start using a barrel 30”+ range, especially on a magnum caliber, the dynamics really kick in when the barrel starts whipping. As you know, the barrel block is intended to do at least two things: one is eliminate stress on the receiver (helping maintain perfect alignment) due to the barrel weight and two, to allow you to reduce barrel whip and enabling you to use a heavier diameter and longer barrel…..

I believe Dan Lilja has posted some calculated static deflections of a sample barrel as you increase its length....the results are surprising.

Thanks for taking the time to post the results of your test....good show.

joe
 
Great test Bill. It really proves how important a good bedding job is.

Hope to see you at the Kamloops show this year, missed you last year...

Dennis
 
Joe,
It is the bending stresses evryone is concerned about so that was indeed what I was referring to. A direct vertical load is really meaningless anyway. You will note that I checked deflection with the tang screw only tightened to try and gauge deflection at the center of the action. The tang does deflect but, again, it's not the catastrophic bending so many envision. FWIW, I free float the tangs on 40X's for this reason.
As far as time on my hands is concerned, I did this about 15 years ago and just had to look at what I had written down.
It makes perfect sense, of course, to try and build a unit which is as rigid as practical. Virtually all the techniques for doing so have been tried and tested at least 25 years ago! We are now seeing the application of some of these techniques to rifles other than short range BR rifles. Interestingly, those shooting fullbore and "F" class have been slow to adopt many of the BR building techniques but are slowly reaching the same conclusions but from a different perspective. Regards, Bill
 
Back
Top Bottom