maybe a dumb question, but Ill ask it anyways-

[cody c]

So, basically here goes...

How much do you effect the bore of a rifle by having it chromed or nickel plated? Do you add alot of thickness? Could a .311 (303 brit barrel) be taken down to .308 by having it chromed or nickel'd, and then re-chambered to say 300 WM or 30-06 etc? Or would the extra thickness create issues with accuracy?

I supopose someone could mask off the rest of the barrel other then the rifling and chamber, and rechamber after.

This is just a question so don't get nasty on me, if it's a bad idea say why, I'm not planning this, just curious.

Thanks!

 

[bearhunter]

First off, what you want to do is impossible with a Lee Enfield action.

Second off, it is unsafe even if you managed to make it function as a single shot.

Thirdly, the cost would be so high that you would be better off looking for a rifle already chambered for either of those cartridges.

Is is possible to chrome line the bore??? Yes but in the end, it's just as cheap to buy a 30 cal bbl and install it. I have a No 4 sporter that I installed a .308 diameter barrel onto. The 303 Brit case has enough capacity to duplicate 7.62x51 Nato velocities as well as most milspec 30-06 velocities. The rifle, shoots very well and I like the availability of the large selection of better bullets in .308 diameter

 

[cody c]

First off, what you want to do is impossible with a Lee Enfield action.

Second off, it is unsafe even if you managed to make it function as a single shot.

Thirdly, the cost would be so high that you would be better off looking for a rifle already chambered for either of those cartridges.

Is is possible to chrome line the bore??? Yes but in the end, it's just as cheap to buy a 30 cal bbl and install it. I have a No 4 sporter that I installed a .308 diameter barrel onto. The 303 Brit case has enough capacity to duplicate 7.62x51 Nato velocities as well as most milspec 30-06 velocities. The rifle, shoots very well and I like the availability of the large selection of better bullets in .308 diameter

Im talking about a P-14, not no1 mk4, can you please tell me where I can get a new .308 barrel installed for less then the price electroless nickel? I really want to know where you get this done

 

[trevj]

Im talking about a P-14, not no1 mk4, can you please tell me where I can get a new .308 barrel installed for less then the price electroless nickel? I really want to know where you get this done

Electroless nickel isn't hard chrome is it?

Electroless nickel in the bore will have a very short lifespan too, so it'll be money wasted no matter how cheap. It is soft.

Chrome used in barrel bores is Hard Chrome, not the same stuff as used in car bumpers, the guys most commonly using hard chrome are the hydraulics guys, who use it on, among other things, scratched up cylinder bores and pistons in Hydraulic cylinders. They typically hone to size after plating.


You are pissing around trying to solve a problem that you won't, at least, no the way you seem to think you will. Chromed bores are made oversize to start with then plated, in a process where the controls allowed the operators of the plant to #### around with all the variable in order that they get the product in to spec when they make their run of thousands, in which, losing a few becomes a palatable risk.

Buy a new barrel and a chamber reamer and have at 'er.

Cheers
Trev

 

[cody c]

Electroless nickel isn't hard chrome is it?

Electroless nickel in the bore will have a very short lifespan too, so it'll be money wasted no matter how cheap. It is soft.

Chrome used in barrel bores is Hard Chrome, not the same stuff as used in car bumpers, the guys most commonly using hard chrome are the hydraulics guys, who use it on, among other things, scratched up cylinder bores and pistons in Hydraulic cylinders. They typically hone to size after plating.


You are pissing around trying to solve a problem that you won't, at least, no the way you seem to think you will. Chromed bores are made oversize to start with then plated, in a process where the controls allowed the operators of the plant to #### around with all the variable in order that they get the product in to spec when they make their run of thousands, in which, losing a few becomes a palatable risk.

Buy a new barrel and a chamber reamer and have at 'er.

Cheers
Trev

Oh, I didnt know that about chrome versus nickel. Cool, I'll have to read into that a bit more. I seen the old winchester levers with "nickel steel" or something to that effect on the barrel and assumed it was similar. It sounds like electroless nickel is applied in much thinner layers and has a more consistent finish then electro plating so I thought it might be an option. And perhaps this industrial hydraulic chrome is really difficult to source or have done anyways.

Bearhunter, where do you get your chrome done? I assume you've looked into it as you've commented on pricing, And where do you get your barrels installed for less than that price please?

 

[Ian Robertson]

In years past I had a couple of hard chrome lined TR barrels, they shot like crap compared to the same thing without chrome. I learned my lesson. The plan was to have a barrel that lasted longer.

 

[popcanhunter]

No such thing as a stupid question.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The other thing to remember is the 303 British is a rimmed round so unless your moving to a similar rimmed round you will need to replace the bolt head as well. If you want one in 30-06 it might just be cheaper for you to look at getting a M17.

 

[trevj]

No such thing as a stupid question.

Dude, there are LOTS of stupid questions!

Almost as many as there are stupid people in the world.

Cheers
Trev

 

[trevj]

Oh, I didnt know that about chrome versus nickel. Cool, I'll have to read into that a bit more. I seen the old winchester levers with "nickel steel" or something to that effect on the barrel and assumed it was similar. It sounds like electroless nickel is applied in much thinner layers and has a more consistent finish then electro plating so I thought it might be an option. And perhaps this industrial hydraulic chrome is really difficult to source or have done anyways.

So...you need (a lot!) to do some reading about metallurgy, and alloying agents and their results, because nickel steel has butt nothing whatsoever in common with plating a layer of the stuff on top of whatever is there already.

Hard chrome is applied to (some) military barrels to cut down on wear, accuracy is seldom the defining feature in the discussion about why it is done.

Getting a barrel plated to reduce the diameter is pretty much peeing your money away. It'll cost you a bunch, and you won't get results you will be happy with. If it worked worth a pinch of poo, there would be an industry around it, but since there isn't, what's that tell ya?

Industrial hard chrome is not terribly difficult to source, but finding a plater that will even bother to #### around trying to plate an even layer on the inside of a barrel, let alone one of a specific thickness, is not going to be.

In short, you are wasting your time trying to find a solution that will work anywhere as good as a new barrel will.

Cheers
Trev

 

[bearhunter]

Im talking about a P-14, not no1 mk4, can you please tell me where I can get a new .308 barrel installed for less then the price electroless nickel? I really want to know where you get this done

OK, now that we have the rest of the story, what you are describing would work fine, without the hard chrome bore lining. It might even work with the hard chrome lining. The AIA rifle M10 B2 I had, chambered in 7.62x51 was and according to its new owner, a tack driver. It has a chrome lined bore.

Many P14 rifles were converted cheaply by nimrods to different 30 caliber magnum cartridges. Most didn't reload and just used commercially available ammo. Accuracy, depended on the rifles bore diameter. It was hit or miss, no pun intended. Some of those P14s had bores as tight as .309 and some around .315.

Some people handloaded these conversions with .311 to .314 diameter bullets, usually with heavy bullets. Accuracy was acceptable or better to horrible.

Many believe the P14 action is stronger than the 1903/Mauser 98/Arisaka. That is a myth. It was made for what is now considered a mid size/pressure cartridge and was made of steel appropriate for those pressures. The strongest of the four listed is the Arisaka.

About 20 years ago, International Firearms out of Toronto was offering P17 rifles that had their receiver bridges milled off, new stocks added and the trigger tang straightened. If memory serves me, they used the original 30 cal bbls and rechambered them to the 300 Win Mag.

Of course, some have also said the rifles started out as P14s because they didn't have to open the bolt faces and there were lots of 30 cal surplus barrels around to be fitted. Could be, I don't know. The one I had, had matching numbers on the bolt and receiver, nothing on the barrel other than the cartridge it was chambered for. It was a mediocre performer to say the least but it was cheap and would shoot to minute of deer lungs to 300 yards.

The matching numbers, may indicate it started life as a P14, the P17 bolts were only given serial numbers when they went to the Brits and Canadians. I don't know if other recipients serialized their bolts or not.

There is also the matter of lengthening the mag well and cutting down and reshaping the feed ramp, as well as fitting the extractor.

 

[bigbull]

Many P14 rifles were converted cheaply by nimrods to different 30 caliber magnum cartridges. Most didn't reload and just used commercially available ammo. Accuracy, depended on the rifles bore diameter. It was hit or miss, no pun intended. Some of those P14s had bores as tight as .309 and some around .315.

Some people handloaded these conversions with .311 to .314 diameter bullets, usually with heavy bullets. Accuracy was acceptable or better to horrible.

Many believe the P14 action is stronger than the 1903/Mauser 98/Arisaka. That is a myth. It was made for what is now considered a mid size/pressure cartridge and was made of steel appropriate for those pressures. The strongest of the four listed is the Arisaka.

About 20 years ago, International Firearms out of Toronto was offering P17 rifles that had their receiver bridges milled off, new stocks added and the trigger tang straightened. If memory serves me, they used the original 30 cal bbls and rechambered them to the 300 Win Mag.

Of course, some have also said the rifles started out as P14s because they didn't have to open the bolt faces and there were lots of 30 cal surplus barrels around to be fitted. Could be, I don't know. The one I had, had matching numbers on the bolt and receiver, nothing on the barrel other than the cartridge it was chambered for. It was a mediocre performer to say the least but it was cheap and would shoot to minute of deer lungs to 300 yards.

The matching numbers, may indicate it started life as a P14, the P17 bolts were only given serial numbers when they went to the Brits and Canadians. I don't know if other recipients serialized their bolts or not.

There is also the matter of lengthening the mag well and cutting down and reshaping the feed ramp, as well as fitting the extractor.

Bearhunter you are bringing back memories !

Back in the day there was a company that has since moved stateside called Century International located in Montreal, Quebec that did alot of what you described.
True they retrofited Enfields but not P14 they were P17's and the reason there were no markings on the barrels was because they were not original barrels they were Wilson barrels that they fitted to those Enfields, the magazine boxes were original and worked with the 30-06 and 300 WM that they chambered, this is also the reason that the P14 was not suitable because it had an angled mag box to suit the rimmed 303 brit round and the rails were wrong for the rimless conversions, I never owned one but I sold plenty of them and they were generaly very good shooters and strong firearms, the stocks were usually synthetic and made by Bell & Carlson although some wooden examples have floated around. The P14 and P17 are excedingly strong actions and suitable for any cartridge that can fit the action as you might remember that A-Square used the Enfield for all it's production rifles and in fact Century provided thoses actions, they were factory actions but magnafluxed for cracks in the reciever, which they suffered at the barrel removal stage of disasembly, Jerry from Mystic Precision cut his teeth on these actions and did alot of shooting and customizing with them, he even had an article written in 6br.com about one of his creations a few years back.
Good to remember.
BB

 

[bearhunter]

Bearhunter you are bringing back memories !

Back in the day there was a company that has since moved stateside called Century International located in Montreal, Quebec that did alot of what you described.
True they retrofited Enfields but not P14 they were P17's and the reason there were no markings on the barrels was because they were not original barrels they were Wilson barrels that they fitted to those Enfields, the magazine boxes were original and worked with the 30-06 and 300 WM that they chambered, this is also the reason that the P14 was not suitable because it had an angled mag box to suit the rimmed 303 brit round and the rails were wrong for the rimless conversions, I never owned one but I sold plenty of them and they were generaly very good shooters and strong firearms, the stocks were usually synthetic and made by Bell & Carlson although some wooden examples have floated around. The P14 and P17 are excedingly strong actions and suitable for any cartridge that can fit the action as you might remember that A-Square used the Enfield for all it's production rifles and in fact Century provided thoses actions, they were factory actions but magnafluxed for cracks in the reciever, which they suffered at the barrel removal stage of disasembly, Jerry from Mystic Precision cut his teeth on these actions and did alot of shooting and customizing with them, he even had an article written in 6br.com about one of his creations a few years back.
Good to remember.
BB

Thanks for the clarification BB. I couldn't remember the details but I do remember some of the rifles I saw in action. Some were very decent, others would shoot into 3-4 inches with factory ammo at 100 yards. If I recall, they also chambered some in 7mm Rem Mag.

By the way, I'm getting my information on the strength of the Enfield actions from PO Ackly's tests. He did a bunch of tests on different actions and found the Enfields weren't any stronger than the 98s or 1903s. The 98s and 03s are considered to be strong enough for just about any magnum as well.

The Arisaka actions were the only ones he couldn't make fail.

 

[guntech]

I was taught back in 1966 at the gunsmithing school PO Ackley started in Trinidad, Colorado, from an instructor who was also a barrel maker with Ackley that various forms of plating bores had been experimented with and it really is not very successful and in some cases dangerous. He did not recommend it.

 

[bigbull]

Thanks for the clarification BB. I couldn't remember the details but I do remember some of the rifles I saw in action. Some were very decent, others would shoot into 3-4 inches with factory ammo at 100 yards. If I recall, they also chambered some in 7mm Rem Mag.

By the way, I'm getting my information on the strength of the Enfield actions from PO Ackly's tests. He did a bunch of tests on different actions and found the Enfields weren't any stronger than the 98s or 1903s. The 98s and 03s are considered to be strong enough for just about any magnum as well.

The Arisaka actions were the only ones he couldn't make fail.

I remember the Ackley writings also, he did say that the Arisaka was very strong, but are they ever ugly, I have never seen any sporters built on them that deserved a second look, the Enfields were never really toughted as being stronger but they did have some features that endeared them to customizing, for example the locking lugs and adjoining surfaces in the action are cut on a helix that gives them tremendous lockup power and they have demonstrated that they can easily crush a case that is a little too long to the shoulder, not many actions are capable of doing this to the same extent, also their biggest strengt I believe is their size, able to accomodate cartridges much longer and wider than any M98, Springfield M70 and the likes. A-Square built some real bruisers like the 500 A-Square on the Enfields, OK that is enough rambling about the Enfield.
Good Chat
Cheers
BB