Measuring rifle lands for seating depth.

jtoews80

jtoews80

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Just curious what other handloaders are doing to measure the lands on thier rifles.

I know hornady makes a tool, but it seems fiddly and I have rifles they don’t make dummy cases for.

Right now, I just seat a bullet way out and make the bullet with indelible marker, keep trying to chamber it until the bolt closes. Then remark and measure the marks. Deduct marks plus 30 thou on standard or 50 tho on magnums to start. This is also fiddly and requires pulling a bullet to prime and add the charge.

I’m thinking of using resized case, a stuck case recovery kit, drilling out the primer pocket then threading it. Seat a bullet to SAAMI spec, and walk it forward with a threaded rod (50 thou per rotation on 1/4”x20 tpi) until it touches. Place the dummy round in the press with the seating die in place and seat stem backed all the way off, run the press up to the top (no crimp set), screw the stem down until it touches, remove the dummy case and screw the stem down another 30 or 50 thou and it’s set?? Has anyone else ever tried this??
 
P&D Enterprises can thread you cases for the hornady tool.

You can pull the barrel and drop the case with a long seated bullet into the chamber. Seat it 0.005 until it drops into the chamber and is removed without force.
 
jtoews80 said:
Just curious what other handloaders are doing to measure the lands on thier rifles.

I know hornady makes a tool, but it seems fiddly and I have rifles they don’t make dummy cases for.

Right now, I just seat a bullet way out and make the bullet with indelible marker, keep trying to chamber it until the bolt closes. Then remark and measure the marks. Deduct marks plus 30 thou on standard or 50 tho on magnums to start. This is also fiddly and requires pulling a bullet to prime and add the charge.

I’m thinking of using resized case, a stuck case recovery kit, drilling out the primer pocket then threading it. Seat a bullet to SAAMI spec, and walk it forward with a threaded rod (50 thou per rotation on 1/4”x20 tpi) until it touches. Place the dummy round in the press with the seating die in place and seat stem backed all the way off, run the press up to the top (no crimp set), screw the stem down until it touches, remove the dummy case and screw the stem down another 30 or 50 thou and it’s set?? Has anyone else ever tried this??
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For many years I did similar as you describe - except I would look for marks upon closing or not able to close - reseat bullet deeper, re-colour it and try again - until just barely no marks - the Woodleigh reloading manual descries a simpler process - nothing extra to buy - no "new" tools, assuming you already have a cleaning rod and a calliper. I do not compete with others, so it is possible this way is not as "precise" as some desire - however, using the "Woodleigh method" I was doing sub one inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards - with my 338 Win Mag and my 9.3x62. With my 7x57, the best I could get with 150 grain Partition bullets and RL-19 powder, was 5 shot 1.25" groups at 100 yards. (There had been the occasional 3 shot group under 1 ", but I never could hold the next 2 rounds inside that.). When I hunted with any of those rifles, I believed the bullet would land within about 5/8" (1.6 cm) of the cross hairs at 100 yards - might be high, low, left or right - but in any event, was "good enough" for what I was doing.
 
They sell the tap and die on Amazon for $20 to make any 1F case your dummy round dremmel the neck out until the there is just enough clearance for bullet to slide in and out of the case mouth then case neck polish inside of neck. I select 5 bullets at random out of my box and run the COAL test 3 times per bullet measuring CBTO. Everyone has their own way of finding the lands but this has been most consistent for me
 
They sell the tap and die on Amazon for $20 to make any 1F case your dummy round dremmel the neck out until the there is just enough clearance for bullet to slide in and out of the case mouth then case neck polish inside of neck. I select 5 bullets at random out of my box and run the COAL test 3 times per bullet Everyone has their own way of finding the lands but this has been most consistent for me
 
I used to use a cleaning rod with a collar on it. In my case the rod is a SS .22 cleaning rod and the collar is a short piece of .22 barrel with a set screw added to the side. Seat you bullet snd chamber, then run the rod down the bore, collar against the muzzle then lock the set screw remove the round and slip a bare bullet into the chamber snd give it a push with a dowel donut sticks in the rifling then gently run the rod back in until it touches the bullet, then measure the gap with feeler gauges. Kind if a convoluted way but seems to work
 
The method described in Woodlegh manual is similar - except no cartridge needed - first distance is to closed bolt face. Second distance is to tip of bullet nose pushed hard to lands - difference is the COAL with bullet hard on lands - start with, say, .030" reduction from that.
 
Licensed to kill said:
I used to use a cleaning rod with a collar on it. In my case the rod is a SS .22 cleaning rod and the collar is a short piece of .22 barrel with a set screw added to the side. Seat you bullet snd chamber, then run the rod down the bore, collar against the muzzle then lock the set screw remove the round and slip a bare bullet into the chamber snd give it a push with a dowel donut sticks in the rifling then gently run the rod back in until it touches the bullet, then measure the gap with feeler gauges. Kind if a convoluted way but seems to work
Click to expand...
works very well i have been doing it for 50 + years
 
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jtoews80 said:
Just curious what other handloaders are doing to measure the lands on thier rifles.

I know hornady makes a tool, but it seems fiddly and I have rifles they don’t make dummy cases for.

Right now, I just seat a bullet way out and make the bullet with indelible marker, keep trying to chamber it until the bolt closes. Then remark and measure the marks. Deduct marks plus 30 thou on standard or 50 tho on magnums to start. This is also fiddly and requires pulling a bullet to prime and add the charge.

I’m thinking of using resized case, a stuck case recovery kit, drilling out the primer pocket then threading it. Seat a bullet to SAAMI spec, and walk it forward with a threaded rod (50 thou per rotation on 1/4”x20 tpi) until it touches. Place the dummy round in the press with the seating die in place and seat stem backed all the way off, run the press up to the top (no crimp set), screw the stem down until it touches, remove the dummy case and screw the stem down another 30 or 50 thou and it’s set?? Has anyone else ever tried this??
Click to expand...
Making your own modified case is easy from a fireformed case. The Hornady tool is great and way more accurate than your described method.
This is a very simplified version of a how to do it... I recommend using cutting wax.. but all the basics are there to see. Cheers
 
Size about .100" of the neck then soft seat the bullet a little long. Colour the ogive of the bullet with a sharpie marker. Chamber the round to push the bullet back into the case. Remove the case and bullet and see how much the the sharpie is rubbed off. Put round back into you reloading press, run it up into the seating die and while holding the ram handle down screw the seating stem down until you feel it touch the bullet.
Repaint the bullet with the sharpie and rechamber the round. If there is still a rub mark on the bullet (should be smaller) turn your seating stem down a half a turn and repeat.
 
I set the bullet long in the case, and close the bolt on the long round. Usually sets is back to the lands as I close the bolt. Sharpie the tip so I can see the lands start on the bullet. Measure, set the bullet long again, repeat.

Has worked for me, no special tools, no fiddling. Measure min 5 times.

On another note, try and figure out how to measure cartridge to ogive with a bullet diameter like .451". No comparator around that I have seen, and going from the plastic tips is futile, like a soft nose. Then I had a lightbulb go off, and started using a headspace gauge. The headspace gauge is already a wider opening, and I happened to find the 7-08 size seemed to sit about right. IN the end it really doesn't matter the tool, as long as it is sitting on the ogive, and you are using the same tools every time for the the caliber. It is just a number for you, and your rifle.

Even giving your bullet seating depth number to a buddy to use will be different as his tools will measure a different size that your tools. I get it, it is a nice starting point, just realize it will be different.
 
Potashminer said:
In what way did you determine what is "best" for you - size of groups on paper compared to other methods? Ease of use compared to other methods? Time savings?
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Time mainly. It is very quick and accurate and I find I don't have to chase wandering measurements like other less-precise methods.
 
Potashminer said:
The method described in Woodlegh manual is similar - except no cartridge needed - first distance is to closed bolt face. Second distance is to tip of bullet nose pushed hard to lands - difference is the COAL with bullet hard on lands - start with, say, .030" reduction from that.
Click to expand...
Damn that IS simple. Definitely going to use this method in the future.
 
I can't remember where I got inspiration for what I do (Ultimate Reloader I think) what what I do is the following:

1) Size a case with my own dies so the shoulder depth is set correct. (No primer!)
2) Drop it in a rifle, with bolt removed, and use a rod to tap it in snuggly and mark the rod where it comes out the back of the rifle.
3) Remove case, seat a bullet long and gently drop it in the rifle. Use the same rod and mark where the rod comes out the back of the rifle.
4) Seat the bullet further back by the distance between the two marks + some extra (10-30 thou)
5) Put the cartridge back into the rifle, feeling for resistance. Tap it with the rod to get the shoulder seated properly. The cartridge should either be able to fall free out or require very little force to remove (because of resistance in the chamber, not the bullet being stuck in the lands), I use the fingernail on my pinky finger as the test. If you have to use a cleaning rod from the muzzle to tap it out, it's likely stuck in the lands. Check the bullet for marks and repeat as required.

Doing this I'm able to pretty quickly get what I feel like is an acceptably close measurement.
 
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