Medalist or S&W 41?
- Thread starter sailor723
- Start date
I have a Brownig Medalist which I've shot for decades, initially in just bullseye but eventually I used it for metallic silhouette in the mid eighties. (25,50,75 and 100yards!). My highest score in bullseye was with a S&W 41 equipped with a red dot....old age has rendered the front sight almost impossible to see. For me I would grab a Model 41 and throw a red dot on it.....the collector value of the medalist might be affected drilled and taped for a scope. Failing either of those....grab a new mkIV Ruger with a red dot. IMHO
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I'm a fan of the S&W 41 and have had three. A couple of years back I acquired four decent quality 22 target pistols. A short barreled S&W 41, a short barreled Colt Match Target, Browning Medalist, and a High Standard Supermatic Citation. 
The truth be known, I'd be hard pressed to say I can do better with any one over the others. 
Explains why I still have all four.
I'll have to thin the selection out one of these days.
The truth be known, I'd be hard pressed to say I can do better with any one over the others. Explains why I still have all four.I'll have to thin the selection out one of these days.
- Location
- West Quebec
Smith 41 for me, the older ones seem nicer to shoot
Well I have them both, however there is more variety available for the S&W 41 in terms of barrels. Both makes will shoot better than most of us can aim. I did manage to get factory drilled and taped barrel for the 41 on which I mounted 2X Leupold. Now you can shoot As up to 100 meters no problem.
Bingo.
Or get a used Pardini for a bit more - should last you forever unless you are shooting 2000 rounds a week, in which case it will only last 20 years
highlander
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Newfoundland
Of those two, I go with the Medalist; but there are better options out there.
Any other perspectives on the 208 you can share TT? I see there is one coming up at auction but it looks well used. I've been a little leery about some of the older used dedicated target 22s as many have seen high volumes, though I guess, comparatively speaking, they should be able to shoot much more than centre fire equivalents without degradation in accuracy.
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
Parts are NLA for Medalist from Browning. I have got parts from Western Gun Parts, but not all available. Buy a target pistol that is still in production.
Sure thing GDawg.
Pros:
The 208 is the most naturally balanced/easy to point gun I have ever held. Several weights are available to change the weight or slightly shift the balance and still look good. I’ve seen claims that the weights act as barrel tuners, but Im a little dubious of that one.
The trigger, even on the earliest models, is very good with slight take-up, a very crisp break, and slight overtravel. Later models with the adjustable trigger are even better as you can dial out the overtravel, adjust weight, and engagement if desired. The two-stage trigger was the final development and I’ve never had the opportunity to own or shoot one.
The sights are excellent with easily replaceable blades both front and rear to attain the sight picture you want. The rear sight is a very intelligent design which prevents POI changes when removing the sights (We’ll come back to this).
Unique. You don’t see too many 208’s these days.
Cons:
No longer manufactured and several critical parts are in short supply. If something wears out or breaks you will spend a small fortune trying to get the gun shooting again. The earliest models are the worst for this.
Expensive magazines, if you can find them.
Not tolerant of neglect. Unlike a Walther GSP the Hammerli is not overbuilt for .22LR. Proper maintenance and replacement of springs is critical to long term function. This in itself is not a problem, however when buying used look for cracks on both the frame and slide. Also look at the chamber and breech face carefully. HV ammo will destroy these guns in a hurry.
Takedown. Very similar to a 41 but remember that elegantly designed rear sight? It has to be removed. Every. Damn. Time. You also need tools to remove the barrel weight in order to get the slide off.
If you want to mount a RDS there is one option through Larry Carter. That’s it. Like everything else 208, come with cash and lots of it.
Summary:
So why do I believe that the 208 beats the pants off of the Medalist, 41, Match Target, and Supermatic? Because of the first two Pro’s. Is that highly subjective? Absolutely. Is the 208 still a good gun for competition? Absolutely not due to the first Con. If you want to compete buy a Walther, Pardini, or if you’re the gambling type a Matchgun. If you want a very capable and very nice pistol with factory support so you can shoot in volume, get a 41. If you want something for occasional shooting, with history and top performance, and you don’t care about support then find a nice Hammerli.
All you High Standard fanboys can come tear me up now. Lol.
Pros:
The 208 is the most naturally balanced/easy to point gun I have ever held. Several weights are available to change the weight or slightly shift the balance and still look good. I’ve seen claims that the weights act as barrel tuners, but Im a little dubious of that one.
The trigger, even on the earliest models, is very good with slight take-up, a very crisp break, and slight overtravel. Later models with the adjustable trigger are even better as you can dial out the overtravel, adjust weight, and engagement if desired. The two-stage trigger was the final development and I’ve never had the opportunity to own or shoot one.
The sights are excellent with easily replaceable blades both front and rear to attain the sight picture you want. The rear sight is a very intelligent design which prevents POI changes when removing the sights (We’ll come back to this).
Unique. You don’t see too many 208’s these days.
Cons:
No longer manufactured and several critical parts are in short supply. If something wears out or breaks you will spend a small fortune trying to get the gun shooting again. The earliest models are the worst for this.
Expensive magazines, if you can find them.
Not tolerant of neglect. Unlike a Walther GSP the Hammerli is not overbuilt for .22LR. Proper maintenance and replacement of springs is critical to long term function. This in itself is not a problem, however when buying used look for cracks on both the frame and slide. Also look at the chamber and breech face carefully. HV ammo will destroy these guns in a hurry.
Takedown. Very similar to a 41 but remember that elegantly designed rear sight? It has to be removed. Every. Damn. Time. You also need tools to remove the barrel weight in order to get the slide off.
If you want to mount a RDS there is one option through Larry Carter. That’s it. Like everything else 208, come with cash and lots of it.
Summary:
So why do I believe that the 208 beats the pants off of the Medalist, 41, Match Target, and Supermatic? Because of the first two Pro’s. Is that highly subjective? Absolutely. Is the 208 still a good gun for competition? Absolutely not due to the first Con. If you want to compete buy a Walther, Pardini, or if you’re the gambling type a Matchgun. If you want a very capable and very nice pistol with factory support so you can shoot in volume, get a 41. If you want something for occasional shooting, with history and top performance, and you don’t care about support then find a nice Hammerli.
All you High Standard fanboys can come tear me up now. Lol.
That is great info TT. I've heard good things but not a lot of details, and like you say, they are not common. The 208 and 240 have been in the back of my mind for a while. If nothing else, my take away is that handling before buying would be highly advisable unless the sample is pristine.
bettieguitar
Regular
The choice between those two is an easy one. S&W 41 is the obvious choice for me. I wouldn't want a Browning anything if you gave it to me. This aside, I agree that both of the other options mentioned are better as a dedicated target pistol. Ultimately, your decision should be based on your intended purpose for the pistol. The S&W is better for training along side a 1911. The Ruger is also a good option at a much lower price point.
TT1900 you are right, But I have had a couple, Hamm.215, a 22 short , forget the # That 215, used from tradex years ago is the only gun I have shot that never had a misfire, FTF , ejection , in a case or so of ammo, maimly fed.gm, or baulk, I have never shoot in compition.
I have some Hammerli exxe/ mags that I made work in the older models. I never had any waights, the safty never worked, but never use them on my range anyway.
The 41 is nice, don't like the grip, can be fuzzy with ammo, The Medalist is nice and just a challenger with fancy wood, Thou I do like them
The GSP also have to be checked real close for cracks in the frame, more common than on the hammerlie's
I shoot a lot of Hi Standards, as I dealt/ collected for years, if you know how to tune the mags, they work 100%, I really like the Olympic's , but that is a different thing.
Most of the guns I have had are old ones, and mags , parts are a challenge, a bit of DIY
I have had a couple of Old rugers MK1 targets that had very nice triggers, not match grade , but for a informal match, O.K. A lot of younger shoots can't get on to a set trigger, or a few oz.
The Pardini,I can't comment on as never had one, had a Unique one time that was a super gun, looked crappy.
If you are worried about parts , 41 would be best, A OLD ONE in exc condition would be better than a new one from what I hear.
I have some Hammerli exxe/ mags that I made work in the older models. I never had any waights, the safty never worked, but never use them on my range anyway.
The 41 is nice, don't like the grip, can be fuzzy with ammo, The Medalist is nice and just a challenger with fancy wood, Thou I do like them
The GSP also have to be checked real close for cracks in the frame, more common than on the hammerlie's
I shoot a lot of Hi Standards, as I dealt/ collected for years, if you know how to tune the mags, they work 100%, I really like the Olympic's , but that is a different thing.
Most of the guns I have had are old ones, and mags , parts are a challenge, a bit of DIY
I have had a couple of Old rugers MK1 targets that had very nice triggers, not match grade , but for a informal match, O.K. A lot of younger shoots can't get on to a set trigger, or a few oz.
The Pardini,I can't comment on as never had one, had a Unique one time that was a super gun, looked crappy.
If you are worried about parts , 41 would be best, A OLD ONE in exc condition would be better than a new one from what I hear.
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hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Don't buy either. You said a good target gun.........a good target gun, inexpensive & with the ability to eat every type of bullet including a diet of high velocity 22LR.......it's the new Ruger MK4 pistol.
C$650.00 buys you a new target Ruger in blue or stainless steel, 5.5" bull barrel....easily upgraded, red dot-able and long life...
The S&W 41 is designed to use "target" velocity 22's, 1050 FPS, while the Browning Medalist can crack the frame with high velocity diets. But the Ruger.....
C$650.00 buys you a new target Ruger in blue or stainless steel, 5.5" bull barrel....easily upgraded, red dot-able and long life...
The S&W 41 is designed to use "target" velocity 22's, 1050 FPS, while the Browning Medalist can crack the frame with high velocity diets. But the Ruger.....
1. A “good” target gun shouldn’t need upgrades. The Ruger trigger is crap. Even an upgraded VQ Ruger trigger is nothing special. After taxes and upgrades the Ruger will cost as much or more than a nice used 41/HS/GSP/etc.
2. High Velocity and Target Gun don’t go together. Ever.
My nickels worth on this, and that's about what is it worth......but anyway...
S&W 41's are "jamm-o-matics" - there are a few guys in the league I shoot that have them and they are always the one's with "alibi's"
They seem to be very fussy regards to ammo, cold, and well, they jam a lot. YMMV
Walther GSP = excellent target pistol. Seem to work fine with most SV ammo. I have one and there are no issues with it. Walther is synonymous for "quality target pistol"
You can wear them out, eventually, but after sale service is very good - you can get most parts from Harvey at Airgunsplus in SK. You might have to wait a bit if they are coming from Germany but you will get them. GSP's tend to be front heavy but that is common with European guns. Also the grip will be an ergonomic grip for R or L hand as needed.
Walther also makes a higher end SSP and GSP expert - I have an SSP and it is a wonderful pistol, very light & nicely balanced, not front end heavy. Ergo grip.
They also made an "entry level" pistol a few years ago - a KSP - which I also have which has never failed ever. No FTF, no FTE. EVER. nice, light, balanced, and has a 10 shot magazine.
All other Walther pistols I have listed here are 5 shot mags
Pardini is a top quality target pistol, parts are fairly easy to get - check out Westernmarksman - sometimes they have used one for sale. Also check Targetshootingcanada website
I had 2 of them and no issues at all with either. Most popular target pistol in the league i shoot in. Should last a long time using SV ammo. Again, 5 shot mag.
And don't lose any of these magazines as previously mentioned by someone else they are expensive to replace.
Hammerli is out of business - purchased by Walther IIRC but could be wrong - parts are scarce but again may be available through the right channels.
But they are wonderful target pistols.
I would suggest trying as many as you can before purchasing so you can form your own opinion.
Any only use SV ammo. Most guys I know shoot CCI SV because it is the leat expensive and most readily available.
S&W 41's are "jamm-o-matics" - there are a few guys in the league I shoot that have them and they are always the one's with "alibi's"
They seem to be very fussy regards to ammo, cold, and well, they jam a lot. YMMV
Walther GSP = excellent target pistol. Seem to work fine with most SV ammo. I have one and there are no issues with it. Walther is synonymous for "quality target pistol"
You can wear them out, eventually, but after sale service is very good - you can get most parts from Harvey at Airgunsplus in SK. You might have to wait a bit if they are coming from Germany but you will get them. GSP's tend to be front heavy but that is common with European guns. Also the grip will be an ergonomic grip for R or L hand as needed.
Walther also makes a higher end SSP and GSP expert - I have an SSP and it is a wonderful pistol, very light & nicely balanced, not front end heavy. Ergo grip.
They also made an "entry level" pistol a few years ago - a KSP - which I also have which has never failed ever. No FTF, no FTE. EVER. nice, light, balanced, and has a 10 shot magazine.
All other Walther pistols I have listed here are 5 shot mags
Pardini is a top quality target pistol, parts are fairly easy to get - check out Westernmarksman - sometimes they have used one for sale. Also check Targetshootingcanada website
I had 2 of them and no issues at all with either. Most popular target pistol in the league i shoot in. Should last a long time using SV ammo. Again, 5 shot mag.
And don't lose any of these magazines as previously mentioned by someone else they are expensive to replace.
Hammerli is out of business - purchased by Walther IIRC but could be wrong - parts are scarce but again may be available through the right channels.
But they are wonderful target pistols.
I would suggest trying as many as you can before purchasing so you can form your own opinion.
Any only use SV ammo. Most guys I know shoot CCI SV because it is the leat expensive and most readily available.
