Memoirs describing the Ross rifle’s failure in combat

[flying pig]

Does anyone know of any memoirs describing first hand the Ross’ failures as a combat rifle?

Obviously, when your rifle fails mid battle it reduces your chances of survival significantly, but surely some of these men would have been taken prisoner or otherwise survived and later written about the experience?

 

[rhino519]

try these;

Holding the Line by Harold Baldwin

Ghosts Have Warm Hands by Will R. Bird

The Great War as I Saw It by Frederick George Scott

 

[NeonGreen]

A Rifleman went to war by Herbert W. McBride

 

[flying pig]

A Rifleman went to war by Herbert W. McBride

McBride definitely was not against the Ross. Or the Warner/Swasey ‘scope.

 

[savagefan]

Good book though.

 

[slug]

I've been told that the fault lies with the sloppy British ammunition that the Canadians had to use.
It is detailed in a book, I believe, by Clive Law.
I haven't seen it personally.

 

[B_noser]

I have read the same thing multiple times and from different sources, although they all may hve been secondary sources. The reason for the factory "LC" modification and the "EC" field modification. Might have those two acronyms reversed, but believe they are correct.

 

[flying pig]

Good book though.

It is so. I’m reading it again right now.

 

[flying pig]

I have read the same thing multiple times and from different sources, although they all may hve been secondary sources. The reason for the factory "LC" modification and the "EC" field modification. Might have those two acronyms reversed, but believe they are correct.

There were a few different things Ross did to correct the issue. I’m going to do a post in a few weeks time showing the differences between an early MkIII and a late one.

 

[Mike Webb]

I've read that originally Canada sent a large lot of premium Canadian ammunition overseas and British swapped it out for poor quality British production. Don't know if true or not. That being said the straight pull Ross lacked primary extraction compared to a turn bolt. Superb sniper rifle though. Not to mention sporting rifle.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I've read that originally Canada sent a large lot of premium Canadian ammunition overseas and British swapped it out for poor quality British production. Don't know if true or not. That being said the straight pull Ross lacked primary extraction compared to a turn bolt. Superb sniper rifle though. Not to mention sporting rifle.

Thats not a issue. The Austro-Hungarians, Bulgarians, etc. all operated straight pull rifles in horrible conditions too without issue.

The issue the Ross had was out of spec British ammo, which with how tight the chambers were made on the Ross meant difficulties chambering. Then after firing difficulties removing the oversized brass. This meant usually troops would stomp on the bolt handle because it is a straight pull.

That causes the bolt to fly back into the bolt stop. Then the rear lug gets deformed making it harder to chamber future rounds and the cycle repeats.

They did correct the bolt stop size and hardening on the bolt heads to rectify that issue as well as opening up the chambers a bit to make them fit out of spec ammo better.

However by time those issues were resolved confidence had been lost in the rifle.

Similar to the M16 in Vietnam, improper ammo caused the rifles to function poorly.

Or even the early Lee Enfields, it took a decade to develop it into the successful rifle it became. The sighting issue in the Boer War was pretty serious.

 

[ArtyMan]

The failures of the Ross Rifle were noted in multiple instances in Tim Cooks book "At the Sharp End".

 

[Mike Webb]

Dont know if it made a difference but the Austro Hungarian Mannlicher had two single lugs not multiple like the mk.3 Ross?

 

[bdft]

I have to reload separate ammo for my 1905 Ross commercial model. The stuff I routinely shoot in my 303s won't chamber properly. Tighter chamber and no longer than it needed to be. I once owned a Ross sporter that had had the chamber hogged out for British ammo and you couldn't reload cases from that gun at all. Completely blown out after firing.

 

[flying pig]

I have to reload separate ammo for my 1905 Ross commercial model. The stuff I routinely shoot in my 303s won't chamber properly. Tighter chamber and no longer than it needed to be. I once owned a Ross sporter that had had the chamber hogged out for British ammo and you couldn't reload cases from that gun at all. Completely blown out after firing.

Probably a sporterized military MkII of some variety though. The Ross commercial chambers are of very high quality, and the front locking design alleviates the side bulge you get from firing 303 in a Lee-Enfield from their springy rear locking design. Brass segregated to a Ross commercial rifle lasts halfway to forever.

 

[ted_dent]

When I had a Ross rifle a friend of mine loaned me a book titled "The Ross Rifle Story" 1984 by by Roger F. Phillips, Francis Dupuis and John Chadwick. It was quite interesting and listed instances of failures including when soldiers had to pound on the bolt handle with their bayonet to get the bolt open.

Unfortunately I think it's out of print and the prices for used ones run into the hundreds of dollars.

 

[flying pig]

When I had a Ross rifle a friend of mine loaned me a book titled "The Ross Rifle Story" 1984 by by Roger F. Phillips, Francis Dupuis and John Chadwick. It was quite interesting and listed instances of failures including when soldiers had to pound on the bolt handle with their bayonet to get the bolt open.

Unfortunately I think it's out of print and the prices for used ones run into the hundreds of dollars.

$600 OTB for a copy of it and Clive Law’s Without Warning at auction last week. Glad I picked one up 15 years ago, think I paid $125 back then and thought that was pricey at the time. There are many errors and a lot of missing information in it, these days it’s more like ‘Most of The Ross Rifle Story’ and desperately needs an update.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Dont know if it made a difference but the Austro Hungarian Mannlicher had two single lugs not multiple like the mk.3 Ross?

I think the major advantages the M95 had was not using a bolt stop on the side (it is attached into the trigger mechanism) which prevents the damaging the bolt locking lug issues when used with too much force and they issued properly sized ammo to them.

By all accounts I have never heard of a ross having a tough time chambering factory made in spec ammo.

 

[Mike Webb]

I owned a M10 E sporting rifle that had cracked lugs from hitting the bolt stop. This was a factory built sporter that was never subjected to rapid fire combat use. Obviously a design or metallurgical flaw.

 

[flying pig]

I owned a M10 E sporting rifle that had cracked lugs from hitting the bolt stop. This was a factory built sporter that was never subjected to rapid fire combat use. Obviously a design or metallurgical flaw.

Mike, the sporters never got the larger bolt stop so far as I know. At least none of my 20+ commercial line rifles with M-1910 actions have the bigger bolt stop. If for some reason the bolt was hammered into the smaller stop it would have deformed the left rear lug and the problem would have kept compounding to destruction as was noted on the MkIIIs in combat.

Ross should have kept something closer to the SDS six lug bolt head for the MkIII in my opinion. But, instead of the double lug being a front lug, it should have been the rear left lug. Then add the larger bolt lug or even make the thing spring loaded, problem solved. The design was close, just not bulletproof. .