Merits of 7mm Rem Mag Vs 338 Win Mag for long range Elk/Moose/Bear cartridge?

all good points, its about stacking odds in your favour and we have a more dynamic range of ways to do this now than we did in the 20th, the beauty of the high bc is you don't have to start things that hot anymore to make those rapid expansion high bc/sd bullets work, the efficiency gained goes everywhere, less recoil for better shooting is a big one, fight bigger winds in normal ranges, these rapid expansion high bc/sd bullets are like modern partitions, they are so long they don't need the actual partition to keep some tail (retain sd) to get the penetration depths we need for our game, anyone who likes partition performance will not notice a difference from a .3 sd eld-m at similar velocities, the partition was a great answer to the sad sd bullets we had 'in the day', the other advantages offered by the .3 sd well over .6 bc rapid expansion construction bullets are all putting more odds in your favour imo, not too many bad choices these days but you can stack more odds in your favour now than ever before, you can make 600 like the old 400

I agree with the nut behind the wheel on actual game, moderate amount of consistent killers to 450, and not many to 600, but there's more now than there were before and the above will be big part of it, stacking odds.
 
I’ve got a 7rm that shoots 175 ablr really well. While I appreciate the efforts of manufacturers and gear junkies that prove this stuff out it’s not the entire reason I shoot them.
They’re ###y. I can hardly wait to get home from the store to open a box of bullets and check out my new shiny things.
That rifle also likes the 150 scirocco, ###y as well lol.
 
I also agree with pathfinder that I don’t usually gain anything from having the sleekest hunting bullet. You’ll note the 2 examples above a bonded so at least they shouldn’t hurt me. I shoot for ribs not shoulders.
 
starvin said:
I’ve got a 7rm that shoots 175 ablr really well. While I appreciate the efforts of manufacturers and gear junkies that prove this stuff out it’s not the entire reason I shoot them.
They’re ###y. I can hardly wait to get home from the store to open a box of bullets and check out my new shiny things.
That rifle also likes the 150 scirocco, ###y as well lol.
Click to expand...

Same lol looking great never hurts. Think Barnes knows that, and Federal too, putting the big windows on the boxes so you can see the nice nickel plated cases and bullets lol
 
starvin said:
I also agree with pathfinder that I don’t usually gain anything from having the sleekest hunting bullet. You’ll note the 2 examples above a bonded so at least they shouldn’t hurt me. I shoot for ribs not shoulders.
Click to expand...

I shoot to kill.

If an animal is dead-on broadside to me I shoot center of the lungs.

If an animal is quartering, backside to me, then I always line up to hit the off-shoulder, so aiming for just back of the ribcage.

If the animal is quartering to me, then I shoot center of the leading shoulder.

I'll worry about some blood in the meat/bullet hole after the fact.
 
Demonical said:
I shoot to kill.

If an animal is dead-on broadside to me I shoot center of the lungs.

If an animal is quartering, backside to me, then I always line up to hit the off-shoulder, so aiming for just back of the ribcage.

If the animal is quartering to me, then I shoot center of the leading shoulder.

I'll worry about some blood in the meat/bullet hole after the fact.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
pathfinder76 said:
I was shooting the 338 and 250gr partitions at 400 yards yesterday. It reminded me how :d“flat shooting” is misunderstood so often. I will be out this coming week with my 7MM getting things squared away at 600 yards with it. 600 yards is a long ways for hunting situations. 400 yard shooting at game is rare. 600 even more so. Speed, BC, is it as big of a deal as we all seem to want to think it is? I dunno?

cQVsqUW.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice NEW bench and Stool ! Hey Chuck that scope looks a little crooked. :p ;). RJ
 
Demonical said:
^ It is completely over-rated.

Everybody wants a so-called flat shooting cartridge and silly scopes with adjustable turrets, yet the average shot on big game is probably 100-150 yards.
Click to expand...

I'm right in that ballpark, average killing distance is 125 yards, maybe 150.
 
Northern Shooter said:
I'm looking to add a longer range cartridge to the arsenal that can reach out further than the 308/30-06 that can still take big game.

I think I have it narrowed down to these two choices. What are the pros/cons of each? Is there anything the 7mm Mag does better than the 338WM, other than price?
Click to expand...

Why ?HOW ? did you narrow it down to just these cartridge’s when there’s so many in between that are GREAT cartridges for Killing Elk Moose Bears such as the many 30 cals ?

308 Norma -300 WSM - 300 Win Mag - 300 PRC - 300 WBee Mag - 300 RUM MOST of them as good or BETTER then your picks ! JMHO and Just Wondering .;):pRJ
 
remington jim said:
Why ?HOW ? did you narrow it down to just these cartridge’s when there’s so many in between that are GREAT cartridges for Killing Elk Moose Bears such as the many 30 cals ?

308 Norma -300 WSM - 300 Win Mag - 300 PRC - 300 WBee Mag - 300 RUM MOST of them as good or BETTER then your picks ! JMHO and Just Wondering .;):pRJ
Click to expand...

Ammo and rifle availability mostly, lack of familiarity with many you mentioned.
 
Had 3-4 7RM's, one 338wm, they both produced spectacular kills, they both had death runs at times. I came to the conclusion that if you don't have a startled animal, or you do break major bones and disable it, it's not going to do much of a death run, somewhat startled critters with a non physically disabling hit, will do a death run. Had double lungs that went 3-4 steps, and ones that went 50-100 yds, same with heart shots, one elk went a mile on a good heart shot, no idea how, but, it did it. Had some great DRT's from the 338, also had some from the 7RM, but, my 7-08 has done all the same stuff as either one, one DRT was at a longer distance than the 7RM or the 338. To me, it's all about where and what you hit on a critter. Takes time to stop blood flow to the brain and muscles to run out of oxygen, critter can move a fair distance in that time period, sometimes to a place you'd rather it not go, that's where the what you hit plays its role.
 
In the interest of science here are two bullets recovered from bull moose. Different bulls, both TSX bullets, one .284, and one .338. Is that difference in bullet diameter meaningful? Who knows.

z77m1T6.jpg
 
Last edited:
exactly what I b1tch about the past 3 or so years, we can land bullets in milk jugs at 2 miles now with all the objective understanding we have of inflight ballistics but we squabble and shrug shoulders trying to explain that above picture as it's all still a subjective mess

those bullets do carry some great answers though that we don't look at yet, finished sd, and if one measured how many inches of penetration each achieved and the impact velocity...one could likely objectively explain the apparent differences in what was seen by the shooter and also inside the critter, maybe not...dead is dead so of course this would be far more comparable if we had standardized testing of those things and it would coincide with field findings and be so much more easily compared and or recommended etc.

as for the bullets there to the animal? the surface area of each bullet as compared to the side of a deer...like shooting a coyote with a toothpick, you could barely measure the tiny percentage of what diameter or front area would mean to an animal, those aren't the factors that matter so we will agree on that no doubt, we just might not agree with how far we may or may not be able to take terminal ballistics discussions one day

the little one may have landed much quicker and dumped way more per inch over shorter distance than the big one and therefore got a drt vs a 50 yard runner perhaps? those bullets only hold part of the information required to see the full picture
 
Here is what the 338 above did. What you have to do is hit an animal where it lives. Are you comfortable shooting a bull moose in the boiler room as he is quartering away? Steeply towards? Face on? With what rifle and bullet are you comfortable doing that with? Or are you content enough to wait for a broadside shot? The last bull moose I killed I walked over 100 miles over the course of a month for. I got one shot after all of that, in the nastiest willow bog hell imaginable, and it certainly wasn’t a picture book, hunting show broad side presentation. I certainly wasn’t waiting and hoping for one. Nor did I need to. Would a 6 or 6.5 with a high BC super sniper work in that situation? Maybe.

(This heart shot wasn’t him but another bull from the bullet photo above)

4BihqE9.jpg
 
Last edited:
pathfinder76 said:
In the interest of science here are two bullets recovered from bull moose. Different bulls, both TSX bullets, one .284, and one .338. Is that difference in bullet diameter meaningful? Who knows.

z77m1T6.jpg
Click to expand...


My take is not so much unless the frontal area of the bullet is the ONLY mechanism doing damage.

It just ain't so though. Due to hydrostatic shock and the violent expansion of a bullet we all know the damage area extends widely past the diameter of a bullet....for a while. Then tapers down to the hole on the offside, without the big ol ring of bloodshot (and ruined organ inside the chest)

If the shots a hard angle and all that initial expansion and damage takes place outside of the vitals and you're relying on ONLY the expanded diameter of the bullet for damage? Yeah. Widers gonna help. Flatter is gona be better than rounded too.


Dunno about high BC sniper ammo but 6.5mm Barnes bullets open wide and penetrate like a mofo, within their velocity window.
 
very comfortable, shot a small bull moose quartering towards, it went 15 yards, gutless but went for the liver after for my guides cats, the liver was hamburger, all of it, bullet kept on trucking to the paunch so I gave up around 20" by my guess, had a whitetail stop one from 2000 fps impact at 200 yards steep quartering away, took 2nd last or last rib on way in, the meat at the front of the brisket caught 81% of it after 18" penetration, most broadside deer size game can't keep this bullet inside, takes a heckuva angle and or bigger animal, even good size bear quartering away at 55 broke the offside shoulder and found jacket at hide but core left

5 years, 15 head, walked up to everything right after, 10-420 yards, 13 yard average recovery distance and I think we're around 163 yard average shot distance but several kills from 300-420, if one wishes they can try to get as much objective info as possible and can do a lot more with less now but most would rather have more insurance because it is still such a subjective topic, you said yourself...the more you do this the more questions you end up with

there are reasons why some things that sound too small by 20th century understanding will out kill the sh1t out of some much bigger hammers...one day we will have it on the back of the box and calculators to show us what works, for what, and why...for now we squabble and shrug our shoulders and mostly play with lots of insurance ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom