Messerschmitt BF-109G Vertical stabilizer cit off.

CanadianAR said:
I’d like to see an attempt at a fake. Just for interest sake. All the same fasteners are used? Without one in hand there are tells. The fakes of these are outed for sport by the collectors. The fakes always get something wrong. There’s set patterns, colours, rivet types, swastika measurements, etc etc
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All those materials are readily available (in just about any maintenance facility) as they have changed very little since then. If I had one in hand I guarantee one of my crew could copy it to where you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. No one could. That was why I put up the post.
 
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Fake or Counterfeit: News, Currency, SS Helmets, Messerschmitts, what will they think of next if there is money to be made!

I'm hoping for a complete Fake Tiger Tank at an affordable price!
 
Trunnion said:
All those materials are readily available (in just about any maintenance facility) as they have changed very little since then. If I had one in hand I guarantee one of my crew could copy it to where you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. No one could. That was why I put up the post.
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The other big thing that is used to authenticate them, same as helmets, and other painted gear, wear patterns, patina, there’s some convincing stuff out there but getting the paint wear, and patina just right could be tougher then building one.

PM me if you wouldn’t mind sharing some info on some stuff
 
Trunnion said:
All those materials are readily available (in just about any maintenance facility) as they have changed very little since then. If I had one in hand I guarantee one of my crew could copy it to where you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. No one could. That was why I put up the post.
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I disagree. If motivated you could always tell. Try and match lead paint from 75 years ago (you can't even find oil based matt paint anymore), or simulate the corrosion and patina. I bet aluminum gauges today may not match wartime Germany, or have the same alloy. A forgery could be detected.
 
^ looks like they recast a standard 725mm track section. Hats off for the work and effort put into making a great visual knock off of a Tiger 1.
 
There was a guy on the internet in the States that had unopened cans of German Paint from WW2. Maybe 10 to 20+ years back. He was "Restoring" German WW2 Helmets!

Patina - Put a German helmet on your roof for 2 years. Some guys have done that for Aging and Patina for Dollars $$$.

Never say never. Even the smart ones got fooled who thought they couldn't be outsmarted! Just saying, anything can be faked if there is money to be made.

bogusiii said:
I disagree. If motivated you could always tell. Try and match lead paint from 75 years ago (you can't even find oil based matt paint anymore), or simulate the corrosion and patina. I bet aluminum gauges today may not match wartime Germany, or have the same alloy. A forgery could be detected.
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bogusiii said:
I disagree. If motivated you could always tell. Try and match lead paint from 75 years ago (you can't even find oil based matt paint anymore), or simulate the corrosion and patina. I bet aluminum gauges today may not match wartime Germany, or have the same alloy. A forgery could be detected.
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I disagree, I won't say why on the open forum as to not give anyone any ideas.
 
bogusiii said:
I disagree. If motivated you could always tell. Try and match lead paint from 75 years ago (you can't even find oil based matt paint anymore), or simulate the corrosion and patina. I bet aluminum gauges today may not match wartime Germany, or have the same alloy. A forgery could be detected.
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Trust me, not only can you find oil based matte paint but anyone in the scenic paint field or anyone with any experience in ageing or faux finishes could fake one and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. They also make flattening paste you can add to oil paint to get a matte finish as well as other additives to achieve the same effect.
 
Trunnion said:
All those materials are readily available (in just about any maintenance facility) as they have changed very little since then. If I had one in hand I guarantee one of my crew could copy it to where you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. No one could. That was why I put up the post.
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I don't know enough about it but watching Kermit Weeks and others restore German (or any aircraft of that vintage) there is a definite lack of fasteners and such that were fairly period specific or even manufacturer specific.
 
Butcherbill said:
Trust me, not only can you find oil based matte paint but anyone in the scenic paint field or anyone with any experience in ageing or faux finishes could fake one and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. They also make flattening paste you can add to oil paint to get a matte finish as well as other additives to achieve the same effect.
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And I disagree with your disagree. There's no way a complete investigation would not turn up a fake. You simply could not recreate all the physical, chemical and environmental characteristics that would determine real from fake. That said, it is unlikely anybody would do that level of research on a $500 helmet.

Please talk to me about matt paint. I was able to get alkyd enamel from several sources a few years ago but now due to environmental concerns matt oil based paint is no longer available. Matt additives break down which isn't ideal.
 
Lets figure this out mathematically and with charges on neutrons and protons and maybe electrons:

Disagree with your disagree: [-1] X [-1] = +1 (This is the end result) Does that mean you both agree to disagree!

bogusiii said:
And I disagree with your disagree. There's no way a complete investigation would not turn up a fake. You simply could not recreate all the physical, chemical and environmental characteristics that would determine real from fake. That said, it is unlikely anybody would do that level of research on a $500 helmet.

Please talk to me about matt paint. I was able to get alkyd enamel from several sources a few years ago but now due to environmental concerns matt oil based paint is no longer available. Matt additives break down which isn't ideal.
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bogusiii said:
And I disagree with your disagree. There's no way a complete investigation would not turn up a fake. You simply could not recreate all the physical, chemical and environmental characteristics that would determine real from fake. That said, it is unlikely anybody would do that level of research on a $500 helmet.

Please talk to me about matt paint. I was able to get alkyd enamel from several sources a few years ago but now due to environmental concerns matt oil based paint is no longer available. Matt additives break down which isn't ideal.
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Agreed it won’t pass a real thorough test but it’s easy to fool the eye, people buy recreated fakes all the time and are non the wiser.

On the subject of making gloss paint matte, an old school trick was to add talc to alkyds or enamels to make it varying degrees of semi gloss to matte finishes. For flattering pastes 1shot/Chromatic makes a flattening agent you add to their lettering enamels but it will work with any oil based paint, 1shots line of oil based poster paint is a quick drying matte oil enamel. I have a can of it in the shop and it works quite well, I’ve been using 1shot products for 10 years and they while the formulas have changed since the 70’s and 80’s they still make a good product.

https://www.dickblick.com/products/1-shot-chromatic-clear-flattening-paste/

There’s lots of tricks to achieve an aged/worn/flat look to paint, from additives to thinning and dry brushing or distressing manually. Sign painters do it regularly to match the look on old vehicles and the film industry uses these techniques heavily.
 
Oil based, flat paints are still available in Canada and USA but they aren’t for cars or hobbies. If you have an industrial use you can get itC and in the USA you can still buy it for off road vehicles aka military. I painted my anti rank gun and used paint from the US. And it’s flat flat
 
Butcherbill said:
Agreed it won’t pass a real thorough test but it’s easy to fool the eye, people buy recreated fakes all the time and are non the wiser.

On the subject of making gloss paint matte, an old school trick was to add talc to alkyds or enamels to make it varying degrees of semi gloss to matte finishes. For flattering pastes 1shot/Chromatic makes a flattening agent you add to their lettering enamels but it will work with any oil based paint, 1shots line of oil based poster paint is a quick drying matte oil enamel. I have a can of it in the shop and it works quite well, I’ve been using 1shot products for 10 years and they while the formulas have changed since the 70’s and 80’s they still make a good product.

https://www.dickblick.com/products/1-shot-chromatic-clear-flattening-paste/

There’s lots of tricks to achieve an aged/worn/flat look to paint, from additives to thinning and dry brushing or distressing manually. Sign painters do it regularly to match the look on old vehicles and the film industry uses these techniques heavily.
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Thanks for that. I have on hand 5 gallons (for a vehicle restoration) of semi gloss that should matt out a bit with more reducer, and possibly time. The good news is that in the old days getting a colour match was the problem. Now with scanners that's the easy part.
 
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