Micrometer seating die? Redding Premium Deluxe Dies?

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TonyMo

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Greetings,

So, I am new reloading and have been at it about a year. Among others, I am reloading for two bolt guns .223 (Savage 10 Hog Hunter...varmint hunting) and & .308 (Savage 11 TR...targets). I am currently using RCBS basic die sets. I am trying different shapes/styles/weights of bullets and finding it a bit of a pain when it comes to consistently getting the same seating depths after switching around. I believe that is where a seating die with a micrometer would be of benefit....if I understand correctly....???

I have been considering changing from these basic die sets and looking at various "competition" die sets.
I have been reading about "run out" and "concentricty" and "neck tension" and bushing dies

Although I realize you can spend a lot...do you always get more?...ie the law of diminishing returns.

I came across the "Redding Deluxe & Premium Deluxe" Die Sets. 2 die (FL sizer & micrometer seater) and 3 die sets (FL sizer, neck sizer and micrometer seater) respectively.

Has anyone used these Redding Die sets or have an opinion?

ht tp://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/174-premium-series-die-sets
https://x-reload.com/redding-premium-deluxe-die-set-a-308-win.html
I prefer the price point of these Redding Premium over the "Type S" etc and spend what I save on more powder and projectiles.

Thanks
 
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The Forster benchrest seating die is the same design as the Redding and much cheaper. And what I buy in addition to Forster benchrest sizing dies.

Below both the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies have the ability to correct-reduce neck runout.

Reloading: Seating Die Runout
Seating Die Induced Runout - A Comparison
by Germán A. Salazar

http://www.uniquetek.com/store/696296/uploaded/Reloading-Seating-Die-Runout.pdf

Below the much cheaper Forster sizing and seating dies that greatly reduce neck runout.

Y7Iyv8o.jpg


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I find my Forster comparator of more use than my micrometer seating dies for making my Ammo at repeatable length to lands .
I think there is cheaper comparators that work as good as the Forster . I still start with long bullets and tweek down to recorded length ( after the first time with each bullet )with standard dies or the micrometer type dies
I haven't worried about bullet runout yet ---
 
+1 for the Forster Benchrest seater here as well, very good design, good enough that Redding copied it lol. I don't think a micometer is worth the extra $$, doesn't do anything to improve OAL...more for super anal people that want to see if 1 or 2 thou makes a difference on the target.
It doesn't BTW...
Your RCBS sizing dies are fine...FL/NS are good quality, the basic seater die is a terrible design though. I think with a better seater you will see improvement.
 
I have both redding and forster dies. They are equal in all respects, get the cheaper of the two.

Micrometer seating dies will do zero to help you seat consistently. I am concerned that you cant get consistent depths with base RCBS dies. Basic dies if used in a quality press and correctly adjusted and tightened should get 100% consistent results. The only variance you should be seeing is the variance in your bullets ogives. this will be very very small on most match bullets.

All a micrometer is nice for is ease and convenience and repeatability of adjusting COAL. This is good when tweaking a load for jump/jam, and also helpful when chasing the lands as your throat erodes over time.

I like mine because it is easy to make shorter rounds that fit in my magazines, and longer rounds for a .002 jump to the lands. I can easily and repeatedly dial back and forth with the micrometer dies.

I will say concentricity IS improved via these seating dies.
 
The Hornady seaters are not too bad either, slightly behind the Forster but not too far. Holds the neck and bullet in alignment prior to seating, easy to adjust... around $25US, and you can add a micrometer to it for another $25US. An upgrade from Lee/RCBS/Redding standard seaters for sure.

394708.jpg
 
The main point with the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies is straight in-line bullet seating. Read the link I posted in my first post, the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies have the ability to "correct" neck runout.

Look at the illustration of the Forster seating die, the case and bullet are held in perfect alignment when seating the bullet. Meaning the bullet can not tilt during seating and create "more" neck runout.

The Hornady and Vickerman dies were tied for "last" place as far as runout testing and the Redding and Forster die can "decrease" neck runout. Meaning the Redding and Forster are the best out of all the seating dies tested. The Hornady die does not support the case body like the Redding and Forster and their sliding chamber that the seater plug slides inside.

Seater_Die_02.gif
 
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bigedp51 said:
The main point with the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies is straight in-line bullet seating. Read the link I posted in my first post, the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies have the ability to "correct" neck runout.

Look at the illustration of the Forster seating die, the case and bullet are held in perfect alignment when seating the bullet. Meaning the bullet can not tilt during seating and create "more" neck runout.

The Hornady and Vickerman dies were tied for "last" place as far as runout testing and the Redding and Forster die can "decrease" neck runout. Meaning the Redding and Forster are the best out of all the seating dies tested. The Hornady die does not support the case body like the Redding and Forster and their sliding chamber that the seater plug slides inside.

Seater_Die_02.gif
Click to expand...

The Hornady seaters do everything else as far as bullet alignment prior to seating, the bullet can't tilt...and they hold the bullet and neck in alignment well enough for me to turn in 1/2" groups at 200m with my 7rm ;)
The Hornady seaters also work for multiple cartridges (of the same caliber), so you can use the same seater for 7x57, 280Rem, 284Win, 7rm, etc.
And really, how much contact does the Forster seater make with the case body? Zero? I can drop a FIRED case into the die and it will slide in and out just fine, and has side to side wiggle room, so really it is only holding the case at the shoulder when seating bullets, same as the Hornady dies do.

And yes, I read that article several times when you posted it before....it's pretty old, and it was done for fun by the fellow. And on paper the 2 "worst runout" dies printed a virtual tie for the 2nd best groups...better then Wilson and RCBS, but only slightly behind Redding.
http://4.bp.########.com/_f1TTfqxVUw4/SvXdRnbu6aI/AAAAAAAAAnE/h7JJUK_oqJY/s1600/DSCN6951.JPG
 
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Guys, I appreciate the discussion and information so far...

curseyou said:
I

All a micrometer is nice for is ease and convenience and repeatability of adjusting COAL. This is good when tweaking a load for jump/jam, and also helpful when chasing the lands as your throat erodes over time.

I like mine because it is easy to make shorter rounds that fit in my magazines, and longer rounds for a .002 jump to the lands. I can easily and repeatedly dial back and forth with the micrometer dies.
Click to expand...

And I guess this was my concern or hope; the repeatability that you get with a micrometer that once you get a known bullet seating depth.

I own a Hornady bullet comparator and overall length gauge.

Maybe, as a novice, I am not seating properly.
Bare with me for this scenario:

So, say for example I am loading .223 and have selected a 55grain Vmax for varmint hunting. I decide I want .002 jump to the lands and know that desired length measured to the ogive.
I install my basic RCBS bullet seater die and seat the bullet long to get started, pull the round from the press and measure...need to seat it deeper.
...turn the die say about half a turn +/-
...reinstall the round, run up the ram into the seater die to seat a little more
...pull round & measure
...repeat etc...finally get close....just a little more (I think machinists use the "cunny" scale at this point:redface:)...repeat
...and viola! I get the desired bullet seating depth. Lock the ring and load 50 rounds.

Now I want to load some 69grain SMK's. I now have to repeat the process of seat, measure, turn the die down a little, seat, measure....etc. until I get the desired seating depth for 69grain SMK's.
Tomorrow I want to to load some 55grain Campro's for the semi-auto...again the same turn, seat, measure, repeat.

With a micrometer seater, could you not just dial in the known seating depth for each variety of projectile/brass combination that you use on the die(or at least a little proud to start) and eliminate much of the "seat, measure, repeat"?
If your response is, "NO YOU IDIOT!!!YOU'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG"...go ahead, I can take it (although you would be quoting my wife on our wedding night....:adult:
 
TonyMo said:
Guys, I appreciate the discussion and information so far...



And I guess this was my concern or hope; the repeatability that you get with a micrometer that once you get a known bullet seating depth.

I own a Hornady bullet comparator and overall length gauge.

Maybe, as a novice, I am not seating properly.
Bare with me for this scenario:

So, say for example I am loading .223 and have selected a 55grain Vmax for varmint hunting. I decide I want .002 jump to the lands and know that desired length measured to the ogive.
I install my basic RCBS bullet seater die and seat the bullet long to get started, pull the round from the press and measure...need to seat it deeper.
...turn the die say about half a turn +/-
...reinstall the round, run up the ram into the seater die to seat a little more
...pull round & measure
...repeat etc...finally get close....just a little more (I think machinists use the "cunny" scale at this point:redface:)...repeat
...and viola! I get the desired bullet seating depth. Lock the ring and load 50 rounds.

Now I want to load some 69grain SMK's. I now have to repeat the process of seat, measure, turn the die down a little, seat, measure....etc. until I get the desired seating depth for 69grain SMK's.
Tomorrow I want to to load some 55grain Campro's for the semi-auto...again the same turn, seat, measure, repeat.

With a micrometer seater, could you not just dial in the known seating depth for each variety of projectile/brass combination that you use on the die(or at least a little proud to start) and eliminate much of the "seat, measure, repeat"?
If your response is, "NO YOU IDIOT!!!YOU'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG"...go ahead, I can take it (although you would be quoting my wife on our wedding night....:adult:
Click to expand...

If that is your goal, then a few seater dies set and marked for the bullet type might be faster for you. Just screw it in and load.
 
Go with the Forester die. Once you have written down the number that the dial says for each load, it will be quick and easy to adjust for each one. Once you first measure with the comparator, the little lines on the micro adjust are very close, so just count your lines to get within say 5. You would only have about 3 measures to get to your target. I'm sure once you get used to it, you may be able to go right to the recorded mark the first time.
 
TonyMo said:
Guys, I appreciate the discussion and information so far..

Maybe, as a novice, I am not seating properly.
Bare with me for this scenario:

So, say for example I am loading .223 and have selected a 55grain Vmax for varmint hunting. I decide I want .002 jump to the lands and know that desired length measured to the ogive.
I install my basic RCBS bullet seater die and seat the bullet long to get started, pull the round from the press and measure...need to seat it deeper.
...turn the die say about half a turn +/-
...reinstall the round, run up the ram into the seater die to seat a little more
...pull round & measure
...repeat etc...finally get close....just a little more (I think machinists use the "cunny" scale at this point:redface:)...repeat
...and viola! I get the desired bullet seating depth. Lock the ring and load 50 rounds.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's only me, but I see a problem with this method. I read through the literature that came with my RCBS 2 die set (FL), and I believe their instructions are to adjust seating depth with the small nut and slotted screw at the top centre of the die, not with the lock ring.

You can set the basic die height and crimp pressure with the lock ring, but once you have that set the way you want it, you don't touch it again.

I load two different bullets currently, one a 6mm 75gr V-Max, the other a 90 gr Accubond, two different lengths of course. The only adjustment I make to the seating die is to turn the center screw up or down. I have the measurement from the top of the slotted screw to the small locking nut recorded for each bullet type, so it's easy to duplicate the last setting I used. I usually set it about .005" long, then fine tune the first round and that's it.
If I had to fiddle with the lock ring each time I changed bullets I'd have even less hair than I do now!

Someone please chime in if they see that I'm missing something here or simply doing it wrong. I'd agree the RCBS die is very basic, but it's a starting point.
 
Chilly807 said:
Maybe it's only me, but I see a problem with this method. I read through the literature that came with my RCBS 2 die set (FL), and I believe their instructions are to adjust seating depth with the small nut and slotted screw at the top centre of the die, not with the lock ring.

You can set the basic die height and crimp pressure with the lock ring, but once you have that set the way you want it, you don't touch it again.

I load two different bullets currently, one a 6mm 75gr V-Max, the other a 90 gr Accubond, two different lengths of course. The only adjustment I make to the seating die is to turn the center screw up or down. I have the measurement from the top of the slotted screw to the small locking nut recorded for each bullet type, so it's easy to duplicate the last setting I used. I usually set it about .005" long, then fine tune the first round and that's it.
If I had to fiddle with the lock ring each time I changed bullets I'd have even less hair than I do now!

Someone please chime in if they see that I'm missing something here or simply doing it wrong. I'd agree the RCBS die is very basic, but it's a starting point.
Click to expand...

You got it down and then some... good idea measuring the stem length for different bullets.
 
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