mid range AR piston driven advice

mithrandir

mithrandir

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Looking to get my feet wet with the AR platform, in particular the piston based models.

Here's some criteria
* reliability - want to be able to shot 1000's of rounds without worry
* accuracy - better than 3 moa, ideally 1-2 moa
* low maintenance - have been reading reviews on some models that run 10,000s of rounds without cleaning
* free floating
* price - less is more (ammo)
* 1:7 or 1:8 rate of twist

some of the models I've been looking at, but not limited to, are
Bravo Company
Patriot Ordnance 416
Sig Sauer 516
PWS MK116
Barret Rec 7

Your guidance from direct experience is much appreciated.
 
I have the pof415. Fantastic rifle after it was broken in. Super easy to clean with the np3 coatings. Probably not the cheapest on the list there but it is quite accurate and comes with a very sweet trigger.

My second choice when I was searching was the sig. The LGS had one in FDE but I waited too long and someone grabbed it.
 
My vote is for PWS. I have a 12.5" bbl mk112 mod0 that I have run without cleaning for over 2K rounds and have made solid hits on a 20" gong at 500m using just a 1× red dot without any trouble. It weighs about six and change pounds with the best recoil impulse I've felt in an AR.

-S.
 
PWS and SIG would be my pick. I own both but my SIG is more accuracy with 62gr ammo.
You won't go wrong with either one.
 
There's a used MR223 on the EE for $2900. If you want reliability, accuracy and low maintenance then I doubt you're going to find a better AR than the HK 416/MR 223. The $2900 price tag is a good deal considering they run around $4000 new.
 
I own a PWS 12 inch and it has close to 5000 rounds through it without a single malfunction that wasn't caused by the operator. Using Black Hills 77gr match Mk262 Mod1 ammo It will do sub moa at 100 yards with my Elcan Specter DR set to 4x. For what you describe I would look at a 14.5 inch or a 16 inch PWS. Light, accurate, easy to clean, and reliable, so far I have nothing negative to say about them. Mine hardly has any visible wear inside after all those rounds as well.
The only piston AR that is close to free floating is the Adcor but I've never shot one of them so I can't comment on accuracy. They have some very cool features but I don't know enough about them to recommend them.

I'm not sure why you are set on a piston rifle, I own DI and piston rifles and as a civilian shooting semi auto for a fun afternoon at the range I can't tell any difference between them, DI guns are easier to make more accurate and parts from any brand will fit. If you ever do break something on a piston gun you will have to wait for parts from that manufacturer as everything related to the piston and carrier is usually proprietary.
Unless you plan to shoot 2000 rounds in an afternoon I don't really see any advantages to a piston operated rifle.

Good luck and be sure to show us some pics of the new rifle once you decide and make the purchase.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but what about the Ruger SR-556 line? They're relatively inexpensive compared to other models but I know a lot of people have a big hate on for Ruger in general...and I hope it's based on their product quality and not something like "they don't support the gun industry" debate of past years. Like I said, I'm not really familiar with this area of expertise, so can anyone enlighten me as to why no one would suggest that? I'm sure there's probably a few people wondering the same thing.
 
I know you are looking at a piston rifle, in which case I would recommend a PWS. However, I've shot over 6000 rounds +/- with my Daniel Defense MK18 and have never had any issues with accuracy or reliability and honestly, a properly put together DI rifle is more than adequate for what you are wanting to achieve. Wolverine has a sale on the DDM4V5, so for $1299.99 you get a mid-length gas system, free float rail system, 1/7" twist rate, lower price, CHF barrel which is long lasting and accurate, and the reliability of a mil-spec rifle. I own two Daniel Defense rifles and over the past year I've shot close to 10,000 rounds through both of them combined without so much as a hiccup. Just my personal opinion.

TK
 
I'm not sure why you are set on a piston rifle, I own DI and piston rifles and as a civilian shooting semi auto for a fun afternoon at the range I can't tell any difference between them, DI guns are easier to make more accurate and parts from any brand will fit. If you ever do break something on a piston gun you will have to wait for parts from that manufacturer as everything related to the piston and carrier is usually proprietary.
Unless you plan to shoot 2000 rounds in an afternoon I don't really see any advantages to a piston operated rifle.
Click to expand...

Derp. Turns out that DI makes for an outstanding service rifle so I wouldn't extend any sort of caveat to them as being good only for "just for a fun afternoon".
 
yohann160 said:
Derp. Turns out that DI makes for an outstanding service rifle so I wouldn't extend any sort of caveat to them as being good only for "just for a fun afternoon".
Click to expand...

Derp? really?
I never said they were only good for civilians. Maybe read my post again.
I was saying that since he is not going to be using it in an armed conflict on full auto there would be no advantage to going to a piston rifle. All the internet hype about a piston rifle running cooler and cleaner is nothing but that, hype. They both deposit carbon on the rifle, they just spew it in different places, Neither is so dirty that it's going to choke after a couple hundred rounds. As a civilian using it in semi auto and especially with 5 or 10 round mags the advantages the external piston offer are lost. I like both my piston and DI rifles, both are easy to clean after an afternoon of 300-500 rounds and both are accurate and reliable.
The disadvantages of the external piston rifle outweigh the advantages when it comes to buying parts.

OP, if you feel you must go with an external piston rifle I would spend the money and get a PWS but if you realize you don't need it you can get a very nice DI rifle for less money.
 
mithrandir said:
thanks for all the feed back. I think i've narrowed down to the
POF P415 Gen 4 b/c of the E2 tech, accuracy & 23,500 rounds before any failure: http://www.pof-usa.com/assets/AfterActionReport_POFGen4_Jan2014.pdf
PWS MK116 Gen 2 accuracy, long stroke piston just makes sense, very favorable reviews

ugh... do these things ever go on sale?
Click to expand...
If you had a rifle that could run 23,000 rounds without stoppage, why would you put it on sale :)

That's a pretty neat link, thanks.
 
Devious said:
There's a used MR223 on the EE for $2900. If you want reliability, accuracy and low maintenance then I doubt you're going to find a better AR than the HK 416/MR 223. The $2900 price tag is a good deal considering they run around $4000 new.
Click to expand...

This right here, excellent rifle that can do it all extremely well. I recently picked up an MR223 16.5 and love it for many reasons. Fantastic rifle, the barrel quality is second to none. If you want DI then go BCM, hell there new Jack carbine by Haley copies the HK rail takedown screw system. The rifle really grows on you when it comes to the HK after a while even the stock trigger I really nice.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but what about the Ruger SR-556 line? They're relatively inexpensive compared to other models but I know a lot of people have a big hate on for Ruger in general...and I hope it's based on their product quality and not something like "they don't support the gun industry" debate of past years. Like I said, I'm not really familiar with this area of expertise, so can anyone enlighten me as to why no one would suggest that? I'm sure there's probably a few people wondering the same thing.
Click to expand...

They aren't trendy.
 
mithrandir said:
thanks for all the feed back. I think i've narrowed down to the
POF P415 Gen 4 b/c of the E2 tech, accuracy & 23,500 rounds before any failure: http://www.pof-usa.com/assets/AfterActionReport_POFGen4_Jan2014.pdf
PWS MK116 Gen 2 accuracy, long stroke piston just makes sense, very favorable reviews

ugh... do these things ever go on sale?
Click to expand...

I have a POF P308 NP3 Gen4, has all the same features/designs as the P415. The E2 chamber is great and doesn't destroy brass like the HK design does. I can tell you that you wouldn't be disappointed going with POF, they meet all of your criteria except perhaps for the price. I'd look to Irunguns for one, quite a bit cheaper than any Canadian retailer, I saved over $1k by getting my rifle from IRG.
 
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