Military 223 brass newb - reaming primer pockets

[TRaTSeRiF]

Last night, I deprimed 1000 cases of 223 brass. 99.9% of them have a circular military crimp (gotta love the Lee decapper lol). I got a Lyman hand reamer and the plan was to attach it to a power tool, just had a few questions on that topic.

1) I just need to get rid of that hair-thin ring around the diameter of the primer pocket for it to be ready for primering or do I need to go deeper?

2) Would you attach it to a cordless drill or would it be more beneficial to attach it to a drill press and drill a piece of wood so it'll hold a case straight (deep hole just bigger than the neck diameter, shallow hole just bigger than the case body) and go to town with the press?

Thanks for all the input, gents.

 

[dthunter]

Any time you ream anything, be sure you dont over do it.
If you look close to your primer pocket reamer, it is likely ground so that it can only cut so deep.
As for the diameter of the small ring of swedged brass creating the crimp, i simply use a deburring tool (VLD & standard 45 degree type to just lightly machine the edges off the crimp.
I take the cases and work with them till they seat a primer smoothly. Experiment on a few cases till you get the feel of it. Be careful, if you are unsure how much material to take off, take off tiny amounts, and test the primer pocket by seating a primer. it may take a few trials till you have removed the appropriate amount. if you are careful, it can be done safely. I have done this for thousands of brass.

It is not the simplest method though for sure. Dillon,rcbs, etc. sell primer pocket swedgers just for this purpose. This is probably the best way to go.

Machining the primer pockets out as decribed above should only be done very minimally, untill proper fit is achieved. Experience is the best tool here.

 

[tiriaq]

I just chamfer out the crimp. Use a standard chamfering tool held in my small lathe. Drill press would be fine. Just hand hold, light pressure, only takes a second. Don't countersink the pocket, just clear out the remains of the crimp.
The Dillon swaging tool has a great reputation. I never had much luck with the RCBS.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Thanks for the tips gents. I don't have proper storage for powder/primers, so I don't have any on hand, other than the stuff I already took out, but I'm assuming it already got deformed and wouldn't be a good gauge for the fit. I might be able to test some cases at the range if I can ask one of the regulars to bring some small rifle primers just so I can test the fit on a few cases and see if it worked.

 

[beltfed]

I like to just ream the crimp if I can, but I have found that in recent runs of federal XM223, the crimp runs quite deep.
I've taken to running them through the Dillon swagger, then reaming for best results.

 

[bigedp51]

TRaTSeRiF

Be careful reaming the primer pockets with a "standard" case mouth deburing tool the angle isn't sharp enough. I picked up the case below at the range when picking up my AR15 cases, I took it home because it looked like a large rifle primer and I was curious. I pushed out the primer and it looked like a mushroom when it filled out the upper part of the primer pocket.

1. Below, (rear) I use a VDL deburring tool to remove the majority of the crimp and speed things up.
(note very steep angle)
2. Next (top) I use a RCBS primer pocket reamer made for their case prep station.
(best hand type reamer in my opinion)
3. 3rd (front) I check the primer pocket with a Lyman primer pocket reamer, if it enters without resistance its OK.

Below is a closeup of the RCBS primer pocket reamer, as you can see it is tapered but also rounds the mouth of the primer pocket. I double check with the Lyman primer pocket reamer because it is "straight" sided to make sure the primer pocket isn't tight below the crimp.

If I was removing the crimps by hand power only I would only use the RCBS crimp remover. If money wasn't a problem I would have the Dillon swaging tool, because of the great reviews it gets in AR and M14 forums when doing large volumes of brass. I also have the RCBS press mounted swager BUT it a pain to get the cases centered on the spindle. (very slow)

 

[deagle2008]

i use the swage tool from dillon works perfect before i bought this tool i was using a deburring tool so much

 

[Kayser Sose]

Holy smokes that WCC NATO case has been supremely overreamed!

Nice set up for case prep there; I'm still hand bombing them through pocket cleaning and champfer and trimming and inside and outside champfering/deburring... Oof.

An opinion; I'd rather reshape the metal (swaging) then remove it (reaming), but also I'd add that in these amounts, that's might be overthinking it. Just don't ream to match that NATO case above. ...the primer couldn't be 'properly' supported by the time the depth of its pocket was halved by overreaming.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Nice setup bd51! Thanks again for the tips gents! KS: The plan was for me to jut remove that outer ring that's really the crimp and test-fit with a primer.. I'll see if somebody can bring me a couple of small rifle primers to the range. Once I get the hang of it, set it up on a drill press and do mass production. Cleaning would be done with a normal drill-mounted brush as the metal removal is minimal and alignment issues are minor.

 

[maynard]

TRaTSeRiF, your over thinking this. A couple turns with a chamfering tool will remove the crimp. You can do it by hand if you only have a few to do. If you have hundreds to do put the chanfering tool in a drill chuck, turn is as slow as the drill press will go, and just hold the cases by hand. You only need to remove the sharp corner.

 

[notsorichguy]

I resize/deprime with a single stage press, then deal with crimped primers with a press mounted swager from CH4D. The kit came with a large and small swager pin. Shell holder goes on top of the die that comes in the kit. Swager pin goes onto the ram of the press. Brass goes into the shellholder and the swager comes in from underneath. You can always tell when you're giving it too much as it will rip the rim off the case or deform it slightly.

Then run the cases into my new favorite trimming device. The WFT. I usually use a cordless drill as its a bit easier to use I front of the TV than a drill press......

Once that is done I finish up with the RCBS case prep centre. I have primer pocket uniformer as well as crimp remover cutters on mine. A light touch up with the crimp remover, uniform the primer pockets, chamfer and deburr the case mouths.

Then I prime off press with a hand primer (also in front of the TV)

Then I run all my brass through my Lee 1000. As the brass is already prepped I removed the resizing station as well as the primer assy (as i prime off press) and I added a lee crimp die.

I usually prep cases in 1000+ lots, normally not more than 2000 pieces. This way I usually have brass pre-prepped and ready to go when I want to load something up for a new acquisition..... I also have brass available if my pet loads start to run low.

I usually start over again once my fired 223 brass bin starts to overflow (5 gal bucket) or my prepped brass bin starts to get a bit low.....

But I digress......the OPs question was about removing mil-crimps!

I didn't like the dillon super swager as it is interior case dependent. When you have mixed brass it doesn't work very well. If you have only one head stamp from one lot it is the best thing going, but when you have 6000 pieces from 8 different makers and 40+ different lots...... Not so much...

I don't like the finished product just using the RCBS case prep centre, cases can have deformed primer pockets and they tend to jam up in the pocket uniformer cutter....

The system I have described was what I came up with after about 5000 rounds of frickken around.....

YMMV

 

[beltfed]

TRaTSeRiF, your over thinking this. A couple turns with a chamfering tool will remove the crimp.

Um, no quite often that isn't enough.
I wouldn't be using a swagger and chamfering as well if it wasn't required.

I didn't like the dillon super swager as it is interior case dependent. When you have mixed brass it doesn't work very well. If you have only one head stamp from one lot it is the best thing going, but when you have 6000 pieces from 8 different makers and 40+ different lots...... Not so much...

Hmmm...., I FL size, trim and chamfer case mouths and then run through the swager - most in mixed lots and don't have an issue with it. I'm curious about what you mean by 'interior case dependent'.

 

[ilike22s]

TRaTSeRiF, your over thinking this. A couple turns with a chamfering tool will remove the crimp. You can do it by hand if you only have a few to do. If you have hundreds to do put the chanfering tool in a drill chuck, turn is as slow as the drill press will go, and just hold the cases by hand. You only need to remove the sharp corner.

This^^^works just fine...and if you have to use the drill press due to the sheer number of casings involved, go very lightly. A quick jab is usually enough to remove the corner.

I've found the hand turning method gives the most control if I'm doing just a score or so.

 

[notsorichguy]

Hmmm...., I FL size, trim and chamfer case mouths and then run through the swager - most in mixed lots and don't have an issue with it. I'm curious about what you mean by 'interior case dependent'.

Web thickness.

I've had nothing but trouble with the dillon swager. At least the one I tried.... That's one reason why I no longer own it.

I have also owned SDBs, I don't any more. I have 6 lee 1000s. I don't mind finicky equipment as long as it works once I'm done tweaking this or that. What I don't like is expensive finicky equipment......

But then that's just me. I would be very surprised to learn there is even one other member of this board that has switched from dillon to lee!

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Web thickness.

I've had nothing but trouble with the dillon swager. At least the one I tried.... That's one reason why I no longer own it.

I have also owned SDBs, I don't any more. I have 6 lee 1000s. I don't mind finicky equipment as long as it works once I'm done tweaking this or that. What I don't like is expensive finicky equipment......

But then that's just me. I would be very surprised to learn there is even one other member of this board that has switched from dillon to lee!

i demand a picture of the 6x 1000's!! i thought i had a lot with 3.

 

[beltfed]

Web thickness.

Web thickness differences are so minute to not matter with the swager.
If anything punched primer holes will leave large burrs inside the case - those can and do cause problems, but reaming the flash holes on a few pieces of brass for every thousand is pretty minor.

 

[notsorichguy]

i demand a picture of the 6x 1000's!! i thought i had a lot with 3.

All of mine are still boxed from a move to a new city last summer.

I had each of mine on a plate, with a corresponding grove on the bench. So the hardest part for me was finding a way to store the presses when they weren't on the bench........ I found a 5 gal bucket to be the quickest/easiest solution when I only had 3 or 4..... After that it took up too much floor space! I have lees for 9mm, 40, 45, 38, 223 and another that started out as a 40 press but soon should be a 357 sig press.

There is another move coming up this summer, so I haven't bothered to set up my presses. Heck I nicely got the g-room built in the new basement when I found out I was moving again, so most of my loading stuff is still in boxes....... I am not looking forward to this move. The last one I didn't realize how much stuff/crap I had till I started packing it up. Stareing down the barrel of another move and I just want to sit down and pout!

Last move took a half ton and a 16' enclosed trailer to move the contents of my "hobby room". Time to cut back the size of my "arsenal" and "stockpile" of ammo......

 

[notsorichguy]

Web thickness differences are so minute to not matter with the swager.
If anything punched primer holes will leave large burrs inside the case - those can and do cause problems, but reaming the flash holes on a few pieces of brass for every thousand is pretty minor.

I didn't find that to be the case...... Maybe I was doing it wrong, but after destroying 20 of the first 100 cases I swaged, I tossed the tool in the corner. At least I sold it for what I paid. I bought it off the EE, sold it there as well......

In any case I have found something that works, it isn't case brand sensitive and it also appeals to my OCD side.

 

[DaveM]

Just read thru this thread and was noticed if a mil crip is removed too aggressively this will lead to an unsupported primer. Am I correct? Could this also lead to "signs" of excessive pressure? ie, back out primers. I have a reason for asking this which I'll get into later.

 

[bigedp51]

Just read thru this thread and was noticed if a mil crip is removed too aggressively this will lead to an unsupported primer. Am I correct? Could this also lead to "signs" of excessive pressure? ie, back out primers. I have a reason for asking this which I'll get into later.

I picked up five .223/5.56 cases off the ground that looked like they had large rifle primers in them and the photo shows what the actual primer pocket looked like. I removed all five primers and other than looking like mushrooms these primers did not split or crack or have any fatigue failures.

I was very surprised that these primers did not fail, BUT because I found them at the range I have no idea what they were fired in or what the chamber pressure was. Out of curiosity I seated a "normal" fired spent primer back into this case and the primer was tight and could not be pushed out with finger pressure.

Below a untouched crimped primer pocket with just the primer removed.

Backed out primers on a bolt action are a sign of "LOW" chamber pressure, watch the animated image below, pressure pushes the primer into contact with the bolt face "FIRST". Then when the chamber pressure increases to a high enough pressure the brass stretches to meet the bolt face. This is why excess head space or over resizing your cases causes case head separations.

With low pressure the primer backs out and stays in that position, as an example a 30-30 case always has the primer protruding because the chamber pressure is only 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi and is not enough pressure to make the brass stretch.

NOTE: Head clearance is excess headspace or the "air gap" between the rear of the case and the bolt face. When full length resizing on a bolt gun you want .001 to .002 shoulder bump or "head clearance", on a semi you want .003 to .004 shoulder bump or head clearance for reliable chambering.

On a AR15 that is over gassed the bolt can be moving to the rear while pressure is still in the barrel. Reloaded ammunition with "loose" primer pockets when fired "may" let the primer fall out and into the trigger group. When this happens it jams up the trigger and the AR must be taken down to remove the primer.