Military ammo question
- Thread starter Ed Smurf
- Start date
Full Metal Jacket.
The term goes back to muzzle-loading days, when a round ball was the order of the day. There were also buck-and-ball rounds, one full-calibre round ball and, commonly, three buckshot. (Stonewall Jackson was killed by his own troops with that load, if it matters, in one of the more famous blue-on-blue incidents.)
When they transitions from muzzle-loaders to breach-loaders, the term stuck.
Nothing special, really.
The term goes back to muzzle-loading days, when a round ball was the order of the day. There were also buck-and-ball rounds, one full-calibre round ball and, commonly, three buckshot. (Stonewall Jackson was killed by his own troops with that load, if it matters, in one of the more famous blue-on-blue incidents.)
When they transitions from muzzle-loaders to breach-loaders, the term stuck.
Nothing special, really.
- Location
- In lalaland, that is Ottawa.
Ball in this is the same as full metal jacket. This ammo does not expand like a bullet for game hunting, e.g. deer, moose etc.
The Geneva Convention of many years ago made it illegal to use expanding bullets in war. An expanding bullets leaves a very bad wound and in the region of the heart and lungs is usually fatal, same for a wound in the stomach. Military thinking has been that it is better to wound an enemy thereby virtually requiring his buddies to help him than to kill him outright.
Whether my statements above still hold true or not, I am unsure but the CGNers who have fought in the last 10 years may very well have more to say.
The 7.62 X 39 surplus ammo is all of this non expanding type.
The Geneva Convention of many years ago made it illegal to use expanding bullets in war. An expanding bullets leaves a very bad wound and in the region of the heart and lungs is usually fatal, same for a wound in the stomach. Military thinking has been that it is better to wound an enemy thereby virtually requiring his buddies to help him than to kill him outright. .[/QUOTE]
Has the Geneva convention been modified to include tracers, explosive ammo, and whatever new munitions as they become avaliable/
Has the Geneva convention been modified to include tracers, explosive ammo, and whatever new munitions as they become avaliable/
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
Well its a bit of a long story.
First thing,, the Geneva Conventions don't mention expanding bullets, or any other weapons of war. Geneva Conventions deal with people and treatment of people.
It is the Hague Convention of 1899 that deals with weapons of war, and this is where signaturies agree to "abstain" from using expanding bullets,, just like they agreed to abstain from shooting projectiles from balloons, or the use of gas (not much good that did).
As for match grade hollow points, tracers, etc: all good to go.
Has the Geneva convention been modified to include tracers, explosive ammo, and whatever new munitions as they become avaliable/[/QUOTE]
First thing,, the Geneva Conventions don't mention expanding bullets, or any other weapons of war. Geneva Conventions deal with people and treatment of people.
It is the Hague Convention of 1899 that deals with weapons of war, and this is where signaturies agree to "abstain" from using expanding bullets,, just like they agreed to abstain from shooting projectiles from balloons, or the use of gas (not much good that did).
As for match grade hollow points, tracers, etc: all good to go.
Has the Geneva convention been modified to include tracers, explosive ammo, and whatever new munitions as they become avaliable/[/QUOTE]
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
Another myth,, military thinking at the close and dirty range is to kill with speed and violence,, same with from a distance.
It is really silly to think otherwise, even though there are a lot of silly thinkers in the military.
Another myth,, military thinking at the close and dirty range is to kill with speed and violence,, same with from a distance.
It is really silly to think otherwise, even though there are a lot of silly thinkers in the military.
This begs another question, are police forces required to use military (FMJ) ammo only?
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
No,, the conventions only apply to nations at war.
Police use of hollow points is the routine.
There was a time when a lot of European police forces used FMJ only, citing the Conventions as a rationale. Silly, but that was their reason.
As to expanding bullets, the 3rd Declaration to the Hague Conventions states:
Tracers are not designed to expand.
As to exploding bullets, I am unaware of 7.62 or 5.56 or 5.45 mm bullets designed to explode. Even .50 is pushing it, although (I think) Raufaus did field a design. In any case, it was the 1868 St Petersburg Declaration that banned the use of exploding bullets below a certain weight (about one pound, IIRC). They are not mentioned in the Conventions.
Police avoid FMJ rounds to minimize the chance of a round passing through the target and striking something/someone else. Plus hollow point ammo transfers more energy to the target than a similar size FMJ round would, and theoretically can stop the threat more quickly.
I found a entry wound near the RT shoulder and the exit was Lt hip area. This was Canadian Military issued ammo that was used. This stuff if it hits bone does a number on the insides.
