Military Rifles Vs. Winter Weather, Ice and Snow

I'd not worry about any of the bolties come frosty weather, but if we are talking some maniac trying to hunt at -45 Celsius, I'd recommend the Mosin. The Enfield is right on the heels because it is just as proven in the bad weather, but the Mosin is simpler and thus has the edge. Mauser is nice but they froze on the Eastern front in the deep cold.

For a semi the SVT40: Garand is fickle but could handle it, The SKS would be fine, and I'm fairly certain the Soviets though the Gewehr being used in winter was some kind of joke to make them laugh too hard to shoot straight.
 
smellie said:
Good points, TIRIAQ.

I hadn't even considered the SKS because of the fact that it is below a 30-30 in horsepower..... and I consider the .30-30 pretty much the minimum for a kill shot on a deer.

What you are saying makes all the sense in the world: training and support are CRITICAL. So is the KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING of what you are doing. Part of the military/hunting educational process, one woud think.
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Killed a Muled Deer with my CZ858 in 7.62x39. Only at 100 yards and iron sights, but it dropped where I hit it. When I bought my SKS that calibre wasn't a legal big game calibre, but it has been in AB for a few years now.
 
@agentcq:

Sure, YOU flattened a muley at 100 with a 7.62x39. You sighted him square on in a vital spot, placed the bullet right and he went down, exactly as planned.

Goes back to what Tiriaq said: training and support.

A lot of guys can't hit a flock of BARNS at 100..... and they are still out there in the field.

When I was newspapering in Nfld, the Newfie Gummint started an actual TEST for prospective hunters. Note kindly that this was the FIRST compulsory hunters' test in the country. It applied to everyone who wanted a licence: no grandfathering. Test was 10 questions on firearms safety, true or false, 7 right to pass, then 10 more on the hunting regs, true or false, 7 right to pass. There were wildlife officers present to read the test to folks who couldn't read: a good thing at that time.

Then came the shooting test.... and EVERYBODY had to do it. I took the test myself because I had written a snarky editorial about it, so I felt I had to put my money where my big mouth was. I did okay, shot it with a 1907 Mark I*** SMLE. My wife shot it with her brand-new 1943 91/30MN (which had just come in the mail and which she had never fired) and some 1950 surplus ammo. Three shots at a target 18 by 18 INCHES at FIFTY yards, TWO hits anywhere on the thing to pass. ONE OUT OF SIX DID NOT MAKE THE GRADE. Saw a guy with a 7mm RM, down flat on his belly like a reptile, great huge scope on the thing, fired 6 rounds and didn't even touch the target; his wife had an old .30-30 and she got her license, just slammed them in one after the other..... and it was only the second time she had fired a rifle!

So it's management as much as anything else. The 7.62x39 will do the job in SOME hands, but I rather don't think in all hands. That's why I discount the cartridge for most people to be using: not enough power to cripple an animal instantly if hit in a non-vital spot.

And that means that Tiriaq is right. Again.

And you can shoot.

But too many can't.

Pax?
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It ain't the size of the pipes Laddy it's the piper! The 7.62x39 is proven on 200lb man sized quarry.The Finn's used sunflower oil as a winter lubricant in their border war with the Soviets.P.S. Simo Hayha AKA[ white death]is now dead and many of his kills were with either a model 28 MN or the 9mm sub gun ambush style........Harold
 
smellie said:
@agentcq:

Sure, YOU flattened a muley at 100 with a 7.62x39. You sighted him square on in a vital spot, placed the bullet right and he went down, exactly as planned.

Goes back to what Tiriaq said: training and support.

A lot of guys can't hit a flock of BARNS at 100..... and they are still out there in the field.

When I was newspapering in Nfld, the Newfie Gummint started an actual TEST for prospective hunters. Note kindly that this was the FIRST compulsory hunters' test in the country. It applied to everyone who wanted a licence: no grandfathering. Test was 10 questions on firearms safety, true or false, 7 right to pass, then 10 more on the hunting regs, true or false, 7 right to pass. There were wildlife officers present to read the test to folks who couldn't read: a good thing at that time.

Then came the shooting test.... and EVERYBODY had to do it. I took the test myself because I had written a snarky editorial about it, so I felt I had to put my money where my big mouth was. I did okay, shot it with a 1907 Mark I*** SMLE. My wife shot it with her brand-new 1943 91/30MN (which had just come in the mail and which she had never fired) and some 1950 surplus ammo. Three shots at a target 18 by 18 INCHES at FIFTY yards, TWO hits anywhere on the thing to pass. ONE OUT OF SIX DID NOT MAKE THE GRADE. Saw a guy with a 7mm RM, down flat on his belly like a reptile, great huge scope on the thing, fired 6 rounds and didn't even touch the target; his wife had an old .30-30 and she got her license, just slammed them in one after the other..... and it was only the second time she had fired a rifle!

So it's management as much as anything else. The 7.62x39 will do the job in SOME hands, but I rather don't think in all hands. That's why I discount the cartridge for most people to be using: not enough power to cripple an animal instantly if hit in a non-vital spot.

And that means that Tiriaq is right. Again.

And you can shoot.

But too many can't.

Pax?
.
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Agree about the shooting. I see that here too, guys having expensive magnum with big scope but they would miss an elefant at 100yds! I dont hunt big game but i can hit 4l jug at 100 yds day long with cz,sks,lee enfield and mosin all with open sight ofc and factory or surplus ammo. Its like here, we can hunt moose with a 12ga shotgun. A slug will drop the beast sure but you must hit at the good place and at the right distance also. Still nothing beat a rifle:)
Jocelyn
 
svt1940 said:
Agree about the shooting. I see that here too, guys having expensive magnum with big scope but they would miss an elefant at 100yds! I dont hunt big game but i can hit 4l jug at 100 yds day long with cz,sks,lee enfield and mosin all with open sight ofc and factory or surplus ammo. Its like here, we can hunt moose with a 12ga shotgun. A slug will drop the beast sure but you must hit at the good place and at the right distance also. Still nothing beat a rifle:)
Jocelyn
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for the slug hunting that depend on the zone here we can't zone 28
 
the #1 issue with the K98 in the cold at Stalingrad was the oil they used, it was a thicker oil mixture then the stuff the Soviets used, the Soviets cut thiers with somthing I forget the ingredients (possibly kerosen)....but it made the oil thiner. I still have to give it to the Mosin or the Lee Enfield the Mosin and Lee Enfield are tested tried and passed with flying colors. just dont oil in the cold and if you do cut your oil down so its thin...I think kerosen was used as a thiner.
 
smellie said:
@agentcq:

Sure, YOU flattened a muley at 100 with a 7.62x39. You sighted him square on in a vital spot, placed the bullet right and he went down, exactly as planned.

Goes back to what Tiriaq said: training and support.

A lot of guys can't hit a flock of BARNS at 100..... and they are still out there in the field.

When I was newspapering in Nfld, the Newfie Gummint started an actual TEST for prospective hunters. Note kindly that this was the FIRST compulsory hunters' test in the country. It applied to everyone who wanted a licence: no grandfathering. Test was 10 questions on firearms safety, true or false, 7 right to pass, then 10 more on the hunting regs, true or false, 7 right to pass. There were wildlife officers present to read the test to folks who couldn't read: a good thing at that time.

Then came the shooting test.... and EVERYBODY had to do it. I took the test myself because I had written a snarky editorial about it, so I felt I had to put my money where my big mouth was. I did okay, shot it with a 1907 Mark I*** SMLE. My wife shot it with her brand-new 1943 91/30MN (which had just come in the mail and which she had never fired) and some 1950 surplus ammo. Three shots at a target 18 by 18 INCHES at FIFTY yards, TWO hits anywhere on the thing to pass. ONE OUT OF SIX DID NOT MAKE THE GRADE. Saw a guy with a 7mm RM, down flat on his belly like a reptile, great huge scope on the thing, fired 6 rounds and didn't even touch the target; his wife had an old .30-30 and she got her license, just slammed them in one after the other..... and it was only the second time she had fired a rifle!

So it's management as much as anything else. The 7.62x39 will do the job in SOME hands, but I rather don't think in all hands. That's why I discount the cartridge for most people to be using: not enough power to cripple an animal instantly if hit in a non-vital spot.

And that means that Tiriaq is right. Again.

And you can shoot.

But too many can't.

Pax?
.
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There are hunters and then there are those with hunting licenses and rifles who go out and shoot at deer.

A real hunter shoots at a specific spot on the animal to get a quick kill. This involves a combination of an accurate rifle, good ammo, anatomical knowledge, animal behaviour, fieldcraft and shooting skill. The most satisfying way to hunt is on your feet with the wind in your face in a well selected hide where an animal can be taken at close range. In this scenario the animal is undisturbed and can be taken with precise shot placement. I've taken a lot of animals this way, even in the prairie provinces where people expect long shots to be the norm.

The worst "hunters" are the road warriors who cruise the roads and edges of fields at first and last light and bale out of their trucks to strafe away at running deer at long ranges. I hate seeing the wounded and lost animals that they leave.

Deer are smart and quickly figure out the road hunters. They will stay in cover until dark and only then emerge to feed. One way to take advantage of this is to get inside the bush and watch the clearings that deer move through on their way to feeding areas. They will start to move towards the edge before last light, but will hold up in cover until dark after the "road warriors" have gone home for dinner. By being inside the bush you can intercept them while you still have legal light to shoot. I recommend folks take up bow hunting and/or muzzle loading before the main rifle season. This way you can take advantage of an early season when the animals are undisturbed and enjoy many more "close encounters" than you get during rifle season.
 
actually read the whole thread and found it really interesting. Since were talking about cold, lub and I was asking myself quite a few questions regarding lub and cold, what do you guys think about Mobil1 0w40 synthetic?
 
I have enjoyed the contructive criticizm.

Larger calibers do the same job better. Shot palcement is the most important and having a larger caliber can sometimes make up for poor shoot placement.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go hunting with the 7.62x39 every day. Most animals I have taken are with the good old 30-06 or my 300 Wby.

Within the proper range and with good shot placement however, you can deer sized game from personal experience with any of the below calibres:
30 M1 Caribine
7.62x39
25-06
257 Wby
270 Win
308
30-06
8mm Mauser
7mm Rem Mag
300 Wby
9,3 x 74 R
375 H&H

I believe for most hunters that the most common selling catridges are best for hunting deer (270, 308, 30-06, 300 Mags, 7mm) and perhaps the 243 Win (from my field experience, I think it is too light for many hunters and especially for larger Western deer, but I witnessed an old Rancher take a Moose with the good old 243 Win - which proves shot placement is paramount).

I have stopped deer in their tracks and I have seen them doulble lunged or hear shot with a Magnum Calibre and run for 100's of meters.

In my opinon, shot placement, right calibre for the range, getting off a quick and accurate shot (standing animal best) and being familiar and confident in their kit is the most important.
 
agentcq said:
I have enjoyed the contructive criticizm.

Larger calibers do the same job better. Shot palcement is the most important and having a larger caliber can sometimes make up for poor shoot placement.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go hunting with the 7.62x39 every day. Most animals I have taken are with the good old 30-06 or my 300 Wby.

Within the proper range and with good shot placement however, you can deer sized game from personal experience with any of the below calibres:
30 M1 Caribine
7.62x39
25-06
257 Wby
270 Win
308
30-06
8mm Mauser
7mm Rem Mag
300 Wby
9,3 x 74 R
375 H&H

I believe for most hunters that the most common selling catridges are best for hunting deer (270, 308, 30-06, 300 Mags, 7mm) and perhaps the 243 Win (from my field experience, I think it is too light for many hunters and especially for larger Western deer, but I witnessed an old Rancher take a Moose with the good old 243 Win - which proves shot placement is paramount).

I have stopped deer in their tracks and I have seen them doulble lunged or hear shot with a Magnum Calibre and run for 100's of meters.

In my opinon, shot placement, right calibre for the range, getting off a quick and accurate shot (standing animal best) and being familiar and confident in their kit is the most important.
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Where the H is 30-30win or 303 British. When I hear, deer cartridge, I think 270, 30-30, 308, 303B, 30-06. IMHO You don't need 300 mags to take deer. Heck 30-06 is getting a little big. This is my $0.02

But back to the original topic. I can successfully report that while snowshoeing, my No4 enfield functioned flawlessly today in minus 8 to 10, with windchill and while snowing, and I didn't clean all the oil from my bolt.
 
My favourite cold weather rifle would be the one I carried and fired in cold weather - an FN C1.

Clean the summer lube off it with VARSOL, then use 3GP335c winter oil, or graphite if you could get it, or nothing at all in extreme cold.

The great thing about winter shoots was the amazingly few casings they could have you find to pick up! ...except under the machine-guns, of course.
 
TCBF said:
My favourite cold weather rifle would be the one I carried and fired in cold weather - an FN C1.

Clean the summer lube off it with VARSOL, then use 3GP335c winter oil, or graphite if you could get it, or nothing at all in extreme cold.

The great thing about winter shoots was the amazingly few casings they could have you find to pick up! ...except under the machine-guns, of course.
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Unless you're the first poor bastards to fire on the range right after the snow melts :D
Time to pick up brass!....I don't remember firing 1 million rounds!? :(
 
This thread got me thinking. :D There haven't been very many major conflicts fought in really extreme winter weather. Only ones I can think of are Finns versus Russians, Russians versus Germans and to a small degree, Americans versus Japanese. Russians have had the most experience and you would expect their weapons to show that.

Grizz
 
Grizzly Adams said:
This thread got me thinking. :D There haven't been very many major conflicts fought in really extreme winter weather. Only ones I can think of are Finns versus Russians, Russians versus Germans and to a small degree, Americans versus Japanese. Russians have had the most experience and you would expect their weapons to show that.

Grizz
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Wasn't it pretty cold in Korea as well?
 
Soviet is the epitomy of reliability as far as firearms go.
They aren't the prettiest, they won't drive tacks and they are very simple and crude.
But they work. All the time, every time.
I give my half intelligent/informed vote to Mother Russia and all her glorious hardware! :D
 
all i can say is the C7 is a piece of crap under -15 i got some strange malfunction... and for you Travis i found that my mosin 91/30 is more prone to jam /freeze than my SMLE anyway if a bolt action freeze hit the bolt harder ! (no i don't use the CLP for winter lub i got way better lub)
 
Korea, lots of problems with guns freezing EXCEPT the chinese Gorloff guns.
Gorloff was a russian inspector at The Colt factory. He insisted that Colt put his name on the Gatling guns they were supplying to the Czar as he would be held responsible for any defects. The russians supplied some of those guns to the chinese and several were captured.
 
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