Military/trench shotguns in Canada

S

stickhunter

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Victoria, B.C.
Hi all,

I've been bitten by another interest to learn more about (primarily WWI and WWII US) combat shotguns. I've got Bruce Canfield's "Complete Guide to United States Military Combat Shotguns" on order (h ttp://www.amazon.com/Canfields-Complete-United-Military-Shotguns/dp/1931464286), but I'm curious to know how common/uncommon military issued shotguns like the Winchester 97, Model 12, Ithaca 37 and Stevens 520/620 are in Canada.

I was doing some googling, and it appears that these are commonly faked, so I want to get my research together before I start looking. Prices seem to be all over the place on the US auction sites, but I was surprised to see several closed auctions with prices in the $1500-$3000 range. Are fakes as common in Canada as they appear to be the US, and are we looking at similar pricing in our market these days?

While I wait for Canfield's book, I'd love to hear what type of trench guns CGNers might have in their collections (past or present). Pictures would be great to see as well.

I remember seeing my first trench gun at the military museum in Fort DeRussy, Honolulu when I was a kid --- I don't recall what model it was now, but they always looked impressive to me with the vented heat shields and bayonet lugs. I'm looking forward to learning more about them.
 
What you mostly encounter here is trench guns that were re-built and used in the Vietnam war. Most are rather salty, but genuine.

I have seen a couple 'collector grade' trench guns here that I felt were put-together, most are missing things like stock cartouches and I think a few have been humped up a bit.

To find a true original WWII trench gun in collectible condition will likely require a lot of patience and some serious money saved up.

In the US minty collectible M97 trench guns go up to 10k USD regularly.

-Steve
 
Steve1987 said:
What you mostly encounter here is trench guns that were re-built and used in the Vietnam war. Most are rather salty, but genuine.

I have seen a couple 'collector grade' trench guns here that I felt were put-together, most are missing things like stock cartouches and I think a few have been humped up a bit.

To find a true original WWII trench gun in collectible condition will likely require a lot of patience and some serious money saved up.

In the US minty collectible M97 trench guns go up to 10k USD regularly.

-Steve
Click to expand...

A shotgun in honest used/rebuilt condition would make me happy, but I definitely understand that caution is needed to ensure authenticity.

Here's a couple of pictures from threads on CGN that I dug up (picture credits to the authors of the threads):

Stevens 520:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1008765-Stevens-520-Trench-Gun
image_zps3556a0ec.jpg

image_zpsa580d85d.jpg


Winchester M97:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-Canada-early-M1A1-carbine-and-M97-trench-gun
M97Winchestertrenchgun-1943assembled.jpg

DSC01442.jpg
 
I've got one of those Vietnam surplus Win 97s. Salty is definitely an accurate description but it's original!
 
Nyles said:
I've got one of those Vietnam surplus Win 97s. Salty is definitely an accurate description but it's original!
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that! I think they're actually really awesome, and usually somewhat affordable up here.

Haven't seen one listed on the EE in ages though. Last one I saw was in Montreal and I most guys who have them are holding onto them.

-Steve
 
Steve1987 said:
Nothing wrong with that! I think they're actually really awesome, and usually somewhat affordable up here.

Haven't seen one listed on the EE in ages though. Last one I saw was in Montreal and I most guys who have them are holding onto them.

-Steve
Click to expand...

In the past, have their been specific groups/blocks of shotguns brought in as imports (e.g., by Century)? If so, do you know roughly when the last imports would have occurred? Or are these mostly shotguns that have found their way up from the States over the years?
 
Imported this Stevens 520-30 trench gun a few years ago. Rebuild using original parts I believe. Definitely not a 4K antique but darn beautiful and shoot great!!!
Screen%20Shot%202015-11-02%20at%208.46.07%20PM_zps4luapaxa.png
Screen%20Shot%202015-11-02%20at%208.46.29%20PM_zpsx9oi3lkx.png
Screen%20Shot%202015-11-02%20at%208.46.42%20PM_zpso7wt2rbd.png
 
That 520-30 is in beautiful condition. I love the plum-coloured bayonet clamp. Does your shotgun have the flaming bomb and P stamp on the left side of barrel (in addition to left side of receiver)? I've been looking over pictures and there seems to be some variation on whether the barrel is stamped on the left or right.

Here's a 520-30 with the flaming bomb on the right:

img_0244.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg


and here's a 520-30 with the flaming bomb on the left:

ff2417.jpg
 
I have a Winchester 97 Trench gun but its not military it does have a rack number on the pistol grip.
I was told it was probably from a corrections or a police force.
It has the proper heat shield and bayonet lug combination.
 
stickhunter said:
That 520-30 is in beautiful condition. I love the plum-coloured bayonet clamp. Does your shotgun have the flaming bomb and P stamp on the left side of barrel (in addition to left side of receiver)? I've been looking over pictures and there seems to be some variation on whether the barrel is stamped on the left or right.

Here's a 520-30 with the flaming bomb on the right:

img_0244.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg


and here's a 520-30 with the flaming bomb on the left:

ff2417.jpg
Click to expand...

No marking on mine anywhere. I was told the manufacture date was close to 1944, refinished in 2011.
The guy never claimed it was an original antique worth thousands. Hence the name...Lmaol
Not sure how they get their parts to rebuild these! anyways, I love mine for the price (I believe I paid around $900) and it's solid. Beautiful blue finish and walnut furniture!!!
You had the option of parkerized or blue.
The company was or still is:
Counterfeit Trench Guns, LLC.
PO Box 9092
Bossier City, LA. 71113
Bruce Bamburg
(318) 746-4851

The company that refinished them for him is:
http://www.willisarms.com/sample-work/
 
^^ Those are fine looking shotguns, thanks for sharing! I'd never paid attention before to the aesthetics of Browning's humpback (or double-humpback) receivers, but I'm starting to really appreciate those looks of the 520. There's something just a little more "primitive" about the hump that I find appealing.

It looks to me that the 520 has a stock attachment using an upper and lower tang clamping the wood rather than a through-bolt into the rear of the receiver - is that correct?

For sighting, is the bead part of the vented shroud or still attached to the barrel? I'm thinking the former; otherwise, it would be difficult to install the shroud over a barrel-mounted bead.
 
stickhunter said:
^^ Those are fine looking shotguns, thanks for sharing! I'd never paid attention before to the aesthetics of Browning's humpback (or double-humpback) receivers, but I'm starting to really appreciate those looks of the 520. There's something just a little more "primitive" about the hump that I find appealing.

It looks to me that the 520 has a stock attachment using an upper and lower tang clamping the wood rather than a through-bolt into the rear of the receiver - is that correct?

For sighting, is the bead part of the vented shroud or still attached to the barrel? I'm thinking the former; otherwise, it would be difficult to install the shroud over a barrel-mounted bead.
Click to expand...

It's the hump that got my attention in the first place. Gives it character indeed. About the stock, I'm not sure, I'd have to take it apart which I haven't had to do yet! But there is a visible receiver extension as you can see at the bottom with a screw and also at the top where the safety is. It sleeves on.
I will post more pics that were sent to me at the time of purchase.
I am not enough of a shotgun "connaisseur" to help you with the last part. Sorry
 
Did someone here just snag this from Epps? Unfortunately, it sold before I got around to checking this morning :(

Winchester 1897 US TRENCH GUN
$749.00
SOLD
Winchester 1897 US TRENCH GUN

Additional Information
Item No 95430
Make Winchester
Model 1897 US TRENCH GUN
Calibre 12 GA X 2 3/4"
Calibre Notes
Calibre Group Large Shotgun
Barrel Length (inches) 20.0
Barrel Length Notes
Shots 5
Shots Notes
Condition Good
Legal Classification Non-Restricted
Type Rifle
Military No
Muzzleloader No
Action Pump Action
Action Notes
Catalog No
Detail FLAMING BOMB, COMPLETE WITH HEATSHIELD AND BAYONET LUG, SERIAL #E943###, STOCK HAS HAIRCRACK AT BOTTOM TANG
Sold Yes

-----

I was curious about the serial number, #E943### so looked it up. This shotgun would have been made in 1948. A quick google search turned up one of a similar vintage that sold a few years ago at RIA for $2250USD:

h ttp://www.icollector.com/U-S-Post-WWII-Winchester-Model-1897-Trench-Gun-with-Bayonet_i12221709

12221709_1.jpg
 
Last edited:
stickhunter said:
Did someone here just snag this from Epps? Unfortunately, it sold before I got around to checking this morning :(

Winchester 1897 US TRENCH GUN
$749.00
SOLD
Winchester 1897 US TRENCH GUN

Additional Information
Item No 95430
Make Winchester
Model 1897 US TRENCH GUN
Calibre 12 GA X 2 3/4"
Calibre Notes
Calibre Group Large Shotgun
Barrel Length (inches) 20.0
Barrel Length Notes
Shots 5
Shots Notes
Condition Good
Legal Classification Non-Restricted
Type Rifle
Military No
Muzzleloader No
Action Pump Action
Action Notes
Catalog No
Detail FLAMING BOMB, COMPLETE WITH HEATSHIELD AND BAYONET LUG, SERIAL #E943###, STOCK HAS HAIRCRACK AT BOTTOM TANG
Sold Yes

-----

I was curious about the serial number, #E943### so looked it up. This shotgun would have been made in 1948. A quick google search turned up one of a similar vintage that sold a few years ago at RIA for $2250USD:

h ttp://www.icollector.com/U-S-Post-WWII-Winchester-Model-1897-Trench-Gun-with-Bayonet_i12221709

12221709_1.jpg
Click to expand...

I would have taken that in a blink.....nice one!!! Seen a similar one on Gunbroker: called a look a like....wonder why?
See link below:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=519651435
 
If you just want a trench type gun to blast around with, i'd strongly suggest you look at a Mossberg 590 A1.
They're the current US Millitary issue, they have a bayonet lug and optional vented handguard, they're actually parkerized so they fit the look, and wooden furniture will fit on them if you want to tweak the look back a few decades.

Look around for pictures, I can't be bothered to at the moment but they turn out looking really awesome and exactly like a trenchgun could. It's seamless and actually "issue" if that's what gets your rocks off.
 
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