MILs to MOA Conversion Scale

[emerson]

But really, that's probably about as accurate as those who are shooting at a target at ~900 yards, trying to figure out how many inches or centimeters that miss was (with no way of accurately measuring that from the firing line), converting that number back to mils or MOA, missing again, and going through that same convoluted process again and again...

It's amazing that there are still some that can see their miss in mils/moa, and easily have the ability to measure and correct with their reticle that's in mils or moa, but decide to guess who many inches/centimeters their miss was, convert that back to mils/moa, just to probably miss again...

Yes. The only time I convert to a linear measurement like Cm or inches is when I’m evaluating a pulled paper target group. The little tape I “borrowed” from the wife’s handy stuff drawer is in inches, so inches on the target to Cm, then factor in the range I shot the target at, and back to mils to evaluate my hold, position, dope, or zeroing. Kind of like a numerical sudoku, because numbers are precise.

 

[Munkey1973]

Anyone have experience with a scope that has mils as a reticle but MOA adjustments? Buddy had one and it hurt my brain spotting for him.

Mils as reticle and MOA dials ? .... I'd have a brain aneurysm for sure!
Why did your buddy buy such a scope ?

Better question, what company would make such a thing ?
Amazon/Wish Chinese-made scope ?

 

[kthomas]

Mils as reticle and MOA dials ? .... I'd have a brain aneurysm for sure!
Why did your buddy buy such a scope ?

Better question, what company would make such a thing ?
Amazon/Wish Chinese-made scope ?

Those were actually a thing "back in the day".

Very stupid, not sure how anyone that it was a good idea. But some people did.

 

[Munkey1973]

Those were actually a thing "back in the day".

Very stupid, not sure how anyone that it was a good idea. But some people did.

Sort of like how some folks thought these were the "cars of the future" back in the 60s ?

LOL

 

[springfield armoury]

Mils as reticle and MOA dials ? .... I'd have a brain aneurysm for sure!
Why did your buddy buy such a scope ?

Better question, what company would make such a thing ?
Amazon/Wish Chinese-made scope ?

It was actually on of the good ones, Night Force I believe. But as Kthomas pointed out it was one of the early models.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Mils as reticle and MOA dials ? .... I'd have a brain aneurysm for sure!
Why did your buddy buy such a scope ?

Better question, what company would make such a thing ?
Amazon/Wish Chinese-made scope ?

Big ARMY.... go way back in time when scopes were a new fangled thingy, reticles were HANDMADE, and a fixed 10X was all you would ever need nor want (major step up from all those 3.5 and 4X tubes).

Mildot was the reticle and MOA was the clicks cause, that was what was available....

You can follow the history from then.

Jerry

 

[springfield armoury]

Big ARMY.... go way back in time when scopes were a new fangled thingy, reticles were HANDMADE, and a fixed 10X was all you would ever need nor want (major step up from all those 3.5 and 4X tubes).

Mildot was the reticle and MOA was the clicks cause, that was what was available....

You can follow the history from then.

Jerry

HHmm that's why. Must be way back when then. I learned with Mils. Although, I was told that our C79 sights are graduated in MOA.

 

[Tokay444]

Anyone have experience with a scope that has mils as a reticle but MOA adjustments? Buddy had one and it hurt my brain spotting for him.

Prime example to why the military complex should not be looked at for the be-all end-all of weapons tech. In some regards they are, but in a lot of areas, they’re completely moronic. That was one of them.

 

[Jamie]

Prime example to why the military complex should not be looked at for the be-all end-all of weapons tech. In some regards they are, but in a lot of areas, they’re completely moronic. That was one of them.

Yep!

 

[rugbydave]

The whole "mil reticle moa turrets" wasn't even that long ago. Like Jerry said, it started with a fixed 10x with a mil-dot reticle and turrets (that you would only use to zero) in moa (like the USMC Unertl). Then it was the Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x with the M3 turrets (mil-dot reticle with a bdc turret in moa) that I think was speced on the US Army M24s and some M14 DMRs, EBRs etc. I had one of the Mk4s that had a mil-dot reticle and M1 (1/4moa) turrets and those were considered good scopes 10 years ago. I shot my first club level PRS-type match in the States with it while waiting on a newer NF. I remember a stage with a mover at one distance and a static target further out. I had to dial on the close distance (in moa) and hold the lead (in mils) and then hold elevation and wind (in mils) for the far target. Glad I only had to do that for one match, haha.

 

[Tokay444]

At Shot 2019 some scope company was all excited to tell Frank Galli what they had in the works. When they said, “Mil dot reticle, MOA turrets” he turned around and walked away.

 

[Trevor60]

Anyone have experience with a scope that has mils as a reticle but MOA adjustments? Buddy had one and it hurt my brain spotting for him.

I remember they initially came out as 10x fixed power; in 2020 terms they are FFP scopes

Leupold MK4 M1 10x or the more desirable 16x
Bausch and Lomb TAC10

The Bausch and Lomb Tac 10. This scope has 144moa of elevation or (42Mils) and some of the clearest glass. 12moa per revolution.

Competing with it is similar to any other MIL configuration. Miss 1 mil left 1/2 mil low adj and hold. If you are spinning on the adjustments the shooter (not spotter) needed to understand what the first 2 dots mean in MOA. YMMV it the shooters responsibility to put on elevation, spotter calls range to target in meters or yards call outside 2mils there was a error in distance or wind call. You can get apps that show reticle and hold overs for multiple engagements during a stage.


The biggest upside of the new scopes MIL/ MIL is the elevation turret revolutions and current reticle designs. nothing is simpler than one turn turret to cover all distances or almost all distances.

Secondary is spotter shooter dialogue. The benefit of not having to convert MIL / MOA speeds up the process which allows the team to slow down during the stage.

Cheers
Trevor

P.S.

And to answer the wind call question for all PRS matches... I held left edge

 

[supernova]

The whole "mil reticle moa turrets" wasn't even that long ago. Like Jerry said, it started with a fixed 10x with a mil-dot reticle and turrets (that you would only use to zero) in moa (like the USMC Unertl). Then it was the Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x with the M3 turrets (mil-dot reticle with a bdc turret in moa) that I think was speced on the US Army M24s and some M14 DMRs, EBRs etc. I had one of the Mk4s that had a mil-dot reticle and M1 (1/4moa) turrets and those were considered good scopes 10 years ago. I shot my first club level PRS-type match in the States with it while waiting on a newer NF. I remember a stage with a mover at one distance and a static target further out. I had to dial on the close distance (in moa) and hold the lead (in mils) and then hold elevation and wind (in mils) for the far target. Glad I only had to do that for one match, haha.

I'm actually surprised some don't remember the days when most low to mid range and even some higher end optics were mil/moa setups. When I first got into LR shooting a little over a decade ago this was the case. Hell my first Nightforce was an NSX 8-32 with mildot/moa turrets. That was about the time FFP and matched reticle/turrets were trying to break into the market. Before Vortex got big, our budget options were stuff like the Bushnell 10X40, 2.5-16 and 6-24 all mildot/moa only. Nowadays those optics are relics of an often forgotten, but most certainly not by me, era.

 

[medvedqc]

I'm actually surprised some don't remember the days when most low to mid range and even some higher end optics were mil/moa setups. When I first got into LR shooting a little over a decade ago this was the case. Hell my first Nightforce was an NSX 8-32 with mildot/moa turrets. That was about the time FFP and matched reticle/turrets were trying to break into the market. Before Vortex got big, our budget options were stuff like the Bushnell 10X40, 2.5-16 and 6-24 all mildot/moa only. Nowadays those optics are relics of an often forgotten, but most certainly not by me, era.

the bushnell 10x40 is still a great scope even today.

 

[Rookie{OMC}]

I still have 2 of the Bausch and Lomb TAC10 . They are one tough scope.