Milsurp collecting 101...help needed.

Threemorewishes

Threemorewishes

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Hello all,

I want to start a collection of WWII military bolt action rifles that represents the primary service rifle used by the countries involved in the war. I picked up a Lee Enfield to cover the Commonwealth countries and am now looking for information about the other players. From my limited knowledge I have come to the following conclusions, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Germany = Mauser K98 in 7.92x57mm

Russia = M1891/30 in 7.62X54R

France = Lebel?

Sweden/Finland/Denmark = ?

Czechoslovakia/Yugoslavia = ?

Italy = Carcano?

USA = Springfield?

Japan = Arisaka?

Turkey = ?

Other countries = ?

Any input is appreciated. I am new to Milsurp collecting so please be patient with my ignorance on the subject.

Thanks in advance.

Threemorewishes
 
Based on your choice for Russia, I assume you mean WW2? Here are my suggestions (in red):

Germany = Mauser K98 in 7.92x57mm wartime made K98k

Russia = M1891/30 in 7.62X54R YES

France = Lebel? Berthier Mle 16/28 with Bale N upgrades or a MAS36 with a serial prefix of L or earlier

Sweden/Finland/Denmark = ? Swede Mauser Mod.38 carbine (or 96/38) and a Finnish M27 or M39. Not sure about Denmark - not my area of interest. Sweden was not a beligerent, but they did make nice mausers in that timeframe.

Czechoslovakia/Yugoslavia = VZ24, G33/40, Yugo M1924, dot43, dot44, dou44, dou45 or swp45 coded K98k

Italy = Carcano? Carcano M91/41 or M38TS carbine in 6.5 carcano

USA = Springfield? M1903, M1903A3 or M1 made by Springfield Armory or Winchester

Japan = Arisaka? Type 38 or Type 99 Arisaka. Recommend the T99, early production, with chromed bore.

Turkey = Any of the 1938 standard Turkish mausers

Other countries = how about a Chinese mauser and an austrian M95 mannlicher?
 
Here are some of the "others"

Netherlands - 1895 Mannlicher
Norway and Denmark - Krag Jorgensen
Hungary - Model 1935 and modified 98/40
Greece - 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer
Belgium - 1889 Mauser, 1924 Mauser, and 1935 Mauser and 1936 Mauser
(1889 conversion)
 
i've added a bit to your list.

Germany = Mauser K98 in 7.92x57mm or G33/40, G98/40, G29/40, G43, etc.

Russia = M1891/30 in 7.62X54R or M38, M44, SVT 38 or 40

France = Lebel, Berthier, or M1936

Sweden = neutral

Finland = mosin nagant with "SA" markings or a M39 or swedish '96 with "SA" markings.

Denmark = Krag (denmarks participation in WWII was measured in hours)

Czechoslovakia = czech portion under german occupation, slovak part a "protectorate"

Yugoslavia = model 24 or steyr M95M

Italy = Carcano

USA = garand, M1 carbine, or 1903 springfield

Japan = Arisaka

Turkey = neutral

Other countries:

hungary = 35M or 43M
norway = krag
greece = mannlicher schoenauer or FN 1924
bulgaria = steyr M95
poland = wz 29
romania = mannlicher 1893 or vz 24
china = various mausers
belgium = various mausers

lets not forget the canadian, australian, south african, and nz marked lee enfields.

now, if i was building a representative WWII collection, i would try for the following:

from the allies:
canadian marked longbranch LE
australian lithgow
WWII dated LE #5
M1 garand
mosin nagant 91/30
MAS 1936

axis and co-belligerents:
kar98k
arisaka carbine
1941 carcano
finn M39
hungarian 35M or 43M
 
You might find that there were an awfull lot of 1917 Enfields issued to U.S. Troops during WWII as well!
Also No 1 MK III* Enfields were issued in very large numbers for all commonwealth countries. Are you sure this is the direction you want to go, you might have to build a bigger room!!!

Scott
 
MiG25 said:
Now, if i was building a representative WWII collection, i would try for the following:

from the allies:
canadian marked longbranch LE
australian lithgow
WWII dated LE #5
M1 garand
mosin nagant 91/30
MAS 1936

axis and co-belligerents:
kar98k
arisaka carbine
1941 carcano
finn M39
hungarian 35M or 43M
Click to expand...


And that would be just the start!!:D:wave:
 
Wow...that was quick. Thanks for all the info. I will have to start with the big players first as money is an issue (isn't it always). So, the next purchase will be a nice German K98k or a Russian M1891/30.

For the time being (small gun room) I will have to be happy with a single specimen that can cover overlaps. My Lee Enfield will be the Lee Enfield for all Commonwealth couintries. My soon to be Mauser or Mosin will have to be the Mauser or Mosin for awhile. All I need now is patience, money and space...let the collecting begin.
Thanks again and stay tuned.
Threemorewishes
 
if money is an issue, you might want to bump the "nice K98k" wish to much farther doen the list whne you have more money. They are NOT friendly to the pocketbook unless you like totally mismatched and abused Russian Capture stuff.
 
Actualy I would pick ONE country. You have a start with your Enfield.
Consider they started in 1891 and are STILL being used in certain parts of the world. For that matter they were still being made in the 1980's
 
Lee Enfield representing all commonweatlth countries is very general and I would say not too representative of the commonwealth countries involved in WW2. Do you have an SMLE Mk3 Lee Enfield? If you want to broad brush things then the SMLE is representative up until 1943 when Britain and Canada moved onto the No. 4 Lee Enfield but Australia, India etc... did not. By 1944 Australia developed and issued some models from the old SMLE for jungle fighting. I guess it depends how representative you want to be?
 
You can't just have 1 enfield. In my estimation you need a minimum of 5 to cover WW2

British manufacture ShtLE - No1 MkIII or MkIII*
Lithgow ShtLE / SMLE - No1 MkIII or MkIII*
Enfield Patt' 14 or Model 1917
British Manufacture No4 MkI or MkI*
North American Manufacture No4 MkI*
 
I have the exact same ambition. A good servicable rifle that can give me an idea of the equipment used. It does not have to be exact for me a .308 israeli mauser would do fine as it is the same action, shows the turmoil of those years right in the markings on the rifle and I can shoot modern surplus. I would be more concerned about finding a cheap garand as you pretty much need one and they are getting pricey. Other than that I would want
Enfield
Ariska
Mosin
Mauser
Garand

Other ones that I would get later if I could

Lebel
SVT
at least one example of a subgun like the MP44 or PPSH or Sten
M1 or P17
What ever the Italians had
Really all you need for a pretty cool collection of WW2 rifles is the 5 big ones so make them good shooters and the best you can afford. If you want to go back later and get more examples cool.
 
woodchopper said:
You can't just have 1 enfield. In my estimation you need a minimum of 5 to cover WW2

British manufacture ShtLE - No1 MkIII or MkIII*
Lithgow ShtLE / SMLE - No1 MkIII or MkIII*
Enfield Patt' 14 or Model 1917
British Manufacture No4 MkI or MkI*
North American Manufacture No4 MkI*
Click to expand...

You also need a Ishpore SMLE as well!:D
 
A chinese rifle? You mean a Longbranch sent to the nationalist army? :D
I have a No4Mk1 buttstock with chinese chatacters stamped on it.
"For instruction purposes"
 
The Danish Army fought for 5-1/2 hours and Hitler was absolutely RIPPED about it, as he said that it should take no more than 2 hours to take Denmark. The men who did this were the Royal bodyguard regiment, and they spent the next 2 years in prison camps for this temerity on their part.

The Danish Army was using the 1889 Krag rifle in 8x58R calibre. This model had the magazine hinge at the front.
The Norwegians, another bunch of troublemakers, used the 1894 Krag with the magazine hinge at the bottom, this in 6.5x55.

Incidentally, how many people realize that Norway swore eternal peace with England...... in 1066....... and have kept their word?
 
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