Milsurp collecting: foresight and self-control, where does it come from?
- Thread starter Robert Nicholson
- Start date
It is the same pair I believe you've already weighed in on in the previous thread. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity but if you do, I would welcome a collegial discourse on the matter via PM.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
For me, collecting is mostly about figuring out exactly what I want now, and waiting for it. I used to do impulse buys but that is just a too expensive way to try to do it (unless you have a very good job). At one point I was buying/selling/trading at least one firearm a month just as something to do.
Unfortunately, as mentioned the supply has grown small, and the demand has gone up. For certain rifles even the cheaper examples will cost you 500$+. Personally, I am happy primarily with a 'shooter' grade (although, as time progresses, shooter grades are quickly becoming collector grade) firearm, as why would I spend a extra grand or two on a nicer one which I wouldn't shoot, when I can buy a couple more firearms for that price.
Unfortunately, as mentioned the supply has grown small, and the demand has gone up. For certain rifles even the cheaper examples will cost you 500$+. Personally, I am happy primarily with a 'shooter' grade (although, as time progresses, shooter grades are quickly becoming collector grade) firearm, as why would I spend a extra grand or two on a nicer one which I wouldn't shoot, when I can buy a couple more firearms for that price.
When I started I did lots of impulse buys and grabbed whatever I could afford. Some of those "impulse buys" have turned out to be some of the real jewels in my collection. Many times I showed up at someone's house to look at "An old military rifle" and left with something very neat. My first big gunshow yielded a very nice Ross mk3 for so cheap it might as well of been free. Funny thing is I knew 1/100th of what what I know now back then but I seemed to score often by accident.
As Kjohn mentioned though I can say even to this day with 100% certainty most of my nice stuff was just pure luck and nothing more. Right place at the right time with cash in hand is how I seem to roll. Sometimes it has taken me years of searching to find an example that I can afford, other times they fall into my lap. It's just luck often I think. Also sometimes I buy something that doesn't fir into my collection but I know it's super rare or super nice so I'll send a pm on here to someone I know who collects that type of gun. Often they have something that fits with my junk and a trade takes place.
I always tell newer collectors to buy what you like, buy what you can afford. Buy what you love to shoot. Also read a lot, the more stuff you can cram into your head the quicker you can scoop deals should they present themselves. Being able to spot say a rare Mauser in a rack of Mausers for sale is always a trump card to those that study.
At the end of the day none of this stuff is getting any newer and sporterizing is going to continue to happen with the current surplus that's on the market. It's all going to go up in value.
I have tried to buy the most uncommon stuff because to me if it's uncommon now it will be doubly uncommon in 10 or 20 years. That's the stuff that ends up being the best part of many collections. Even if a guy is on a limited budget, buy an sks a Mosin every other month and leave them in the grease. Buy one to shoot and leave the others. I betcha in 10 years or more those things will be like most stuff is now, RARE and pricey.
As for not shooting some of them. That gets easier for me with more time in the hobby and more appreciation for say a gun that's mint and 100 years old. Also as numbers increase it becomes a time issue as its hard to shoot everything all the time. Some of my favorite guns to shoot haven't been out of the rack for a couple years simply because I'm working on loads for newer guns in the collection. If a gun is mint and super rare and I absolutely need to play with it then I load mild cast loads and send those down the pipe.
Once a year I keep my shooters preserved by taking them down completely and oiling the stock and metal. Guns that I don't shoot get a good coating of grease down the bore and a light coat on the metal. Those I keep track of and reapply on a yearly basis as needs be.
That's my take on it.
As Kjohn mentioned though I can say even to this day with 100% certainty most of my nice stuff was just pure luck and nothing more. Right place at the right time with cash in hand is how I seem to roll. Sometimes it has taken me years of searching to find an example that I can afford, other times they fall into my lap. It's just luck often I think. Also sometimes I buy something that doesn't fir into my collection but I know it's super rare or super nice so I'll send a pm on here to someone I know who collects that type of gun. Often they have something that fits with my junk and a trade takes place.
I always tell newer collectors to buy what you like, buy what you can afford. Buy what you love to shoot. Also read a lot, the more stuff you can cram into your head the quicker you can scoop deals should they present themselves. Being able to spot say a rare Mauser in a rack of Mausers for sale is always a trump card to those that study.
At the end of the day none of this stuff is getting any newer and sporterizing is going to continue to happen with the current surplus that's on the market. It's all going to go up in value.
I have tried to buy the most uncommon stuff because to me if it's uncommon now it will be doubly uncommon in 10 or 20 years. That's the stuff that ends up being the best part of many collections. Even if a guy is on a limited budget, buy an sks a Mosin every other month and leave them in the grease. Buy one to shoot and leave the others. I betcha in 10 years or more those things will be like most stuff is now, RARE and pricey.
As for not shooting some of them. That gets easier for me with more time in the hobby and more appreciation for say a gun that's mint and 100 years old. Also as numbers increase it becomes a time issue as its hard to shoot everything all the time. Some of my favorite guns to shoot haven't been out of the rack for a couple years simply because I'm working on loads for newer guns in the collection. If a gun is mint and super rare and I absolutely need to play with it then I load mild cast loads and send those down the pipe.
Once a year I keep my shooters preserved by taking them down completely and oiling the stock and metal. Guns that I don't shoot get a good coating of grease down the bore and a light coat on the metal. Those I keep track of and reapply on a yearly basis as needs be.
That's my take on it.
You're very welcome.
I'm not an old time collector so it was only 4 or 5 years ago that became a serious collector. I will say though I've been blessed due to the fact that several of the guys in the what I call "the old timers collectors club" have take me under their wing. I've learned a ton from them and that has paid off huge in building my collection.
My quick take (and this probably mirrors a few things in Tinman204's thorough answer): Get passionate about certain guns and enjoy them. Try to narrow your focus a bit so you that you become an expert in certain guns. That's when you'll know a real opportunity when you see it. Buy the best that you can afford - upgrading is a good way of doing that. It's guaranteed that there are others just like you and your guns will continue to be desirable. I can tell you that I see 2 Swedes in this thread that I desire greatly... 
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
I agree with this. I'm finding now that if I have to wait for something for a long time I appreciate it a lot more. I waited nearly three years for my Bren. I've been waiting nearly two years now for a Model 70 in 300 H&H. It'll be almost 5 years waiting for a nice 4T, and will be a few more years yet at least. These will be the ones that I enjoy the most.
One thing I left out, and Tinman204 touched on. I have always had cash on hand to buy when the opportunity pops up. I have foregone the big fancy snowmobiles, etc., don't drink alcohol at all for the past 42 years, haven't smoked for 30+ years. I had a good business for 20 years, so it wasn't a big sacrifice to keep cash available.
If I see a firearm that I think I need, I only need to decide if I want it badly enough to spend the money. I raised a family and had a good home and good vehicles, but I did buy guns, and more guns. I still buy guns.
If I see a firearm that I think I need, I only need to decide if I want it badly enough to spend the money. I raised a family and had a good home and good vehicles, but I did buy guns, and more guns. I still buy guns.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Foresight? Don't know wht that is. I do know I don't like using hindsight, so I just buy it all.
Self control? Mine isn't very good, but I have zero temptation to shoot the unfired ones.
Agree with kjohns assessment. Cash is king. I also have foregone alcohol for the last decade or two in order to afford the pieces I want. And several of the pieces are worth more than the 18 year old Dodge diesel I drive.
Word of advice to young collectors: buy the right books then buy the guns. The books at $50-$120 might seem like a lot, but they will pay off the first time you correctly identify a gem, and correctly stay away from a fake.
Self control? Mine isn't very good, but I have zero temptation to shoot the unfired ones.
Agree with kjohns assessment. Cash is king. I also have foregone alcohol for the last decade or two in order to afford the pieces I want. And several of the pieces are worth more than the 18 year old Dodge diesel I drive.
Word of advice to young collectors: buy the right books then buy the guns. The books at $50-$120 might seem like a lot, but they will pay off the first time you correctly identify a gem, and correctly stay away from a fake.
Well I've obviously been getting good advise from my mentors.!!
Man do I buy books, I have at least 10 books for every one rifle. Here's shots of my latest haul from a couple weeks ago, my wife laughed when I pulled up in my van and the entire passenger side was full of books! Went to am estate sale and bought every book that the guy had.
One more thing I'll add. If you have a lady in your life make sure she understands that you are crazy and need to buy guns, lots and lots of guns!! That is a must!!
Successful Collecting rifles and marriage= becoming an artful stretcher of the truth
When I want "need" something really badly, I find a rifle I'm not attached to and sell it. The wife wraps it for shipping, congratulates me on finally "coming to my senses and getting rid of one of my damn guns, why do you need so many anyway!". Then I get the new toy delivered to my office, out of the truck and into the safe , bada bing! even better have a flurry of selling a few rifles, some accessories, etc and in the confusion I can sometimes turn 2 rifles into 4! Old guys learn to be sneaky. Oh yeah you can always get a new rifle into the house by bringing it in the house after a range trip with 5 or 6 other rifle cases, foolproof! Having a spouse that likes to shoot I hear is nice, but how the heck could you get away with the above tricks then? be careful what you wish for
The long gun registry really made the process difficult, those damn letters with notifications gave the game away, there on the dining room table it would sit when I got home, damning me to raised eyebrows and condemnation, dark days indeed.
When I want "need" something really badly, I find a rifle I'm not attached to and sell it. The wife wraps it for shipping, congratulates me on finally "coming to my senses and getting rid of one of my damn guns, why do you need so many anyway!". Then I get the new toy delivered to my office, out of the truck and into the safe , bada bing! even better have a flurry of selling a few rifles, some accessories, etc and in the confusion I can sometimes turn 2 rifles into 4! Old guys learn to be sneaky. Oh yeah you can always get a new rifle into the house by bringing it in the house after a range trip with 5 or 6 other rifle cases, foolproof! Having a spouse that likes to shoot I hear is nice, but how the heck could you get away with the above tricks then? be careful what you wish for
The long gun registry really made the process difficult, those damn letters with notifications gave the game away, there on the dining room table it would sit when I got home, damning me to raised eyebrows and condemnation, dark days indeed.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Had a friend sneak in a Vickers with tripod and accessories into his room at 2 in the morning. His parents wouldn't let him buy any more guns, but once in the room, it had so much stuff in there he could just claim "it was always there". And it worked too.
Many a gun nut has been asked the question "Is that as new gun?"
"New? Nah, I just don't take this one out much"
or my personal favourite for milsurps, "What the f### is that! It must be new..."
"Oh no, its actually quite old!"
Whether any of these actually worked might be up for debate. Being that milsurp collecting is a disease, It can be hard to stop yourself. That nice Mauser or Lee Enfield looks good and makes you happy whether you are eating a steak, or a bowl of KD.
To be serious, I don't recommend frivolous spending on anything, but like others here, no booze, and no smokes freed a lot of cash up for me. Any money you spend on milsurps *should* be a good investment for the future, if you don't blow your budget from the water in the process of accruing your collection. The value of guns as an investment in Canada has been discussed here before, its not something Im going to delve into. Enjoy them while you can, pass them on to interested parties that will take care of them, its that simple IMO. As for not shooting the gems, in my case, they came along after the shooters, so I never needed to shoot them, some have been shot by me, but only out of curiosity. The good ones aren't coming to the range, plenty of shooter grade stuff out there. (unless you need to shoot that No.4T, or 1903A4, a gentle range trip is understandable, but anyone who has one of these won't be doing that very often)
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