Milsurp collecting

kjohn

kjohn

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
173   0   0
Location
SE Sask.
With many younger people doing some serious collecting, lots of these firearms will not be surfacing again for quite some time. I am certainly not "young", but I say this about younger collectors because I have some personal experience. I have rifles in my collection that haven't been put back out on the market for a long time. I bought my first military rifles in 1965, and have been buying ever since. I could count on my left hand how many I have sold out of my collection, and they would have been rifles I didn't really want in the first place, or rifles I've had the chance to replace with better examples.

What one man considers a "collection" may or may not tickle everybody's fancy. I need not attempt to explain collecting. We each have our own way of viewing such activity. Newcomers need not be put off by someone else's opinions, but can certainly learn from the shared experience and knowledge. Forums like this are a goldmine for beginning collectors, and crusty old guys like me.

I love going to gun shows. There is always the opportunity to talk with somebody who can shed light on an interesting topic. I help a dealer at some shows, and have been able to learn some fascinating details about the hobby I love.

Why do I collect? It has been a passion with me since my days as a kid, reading my Dad's Sports Afield or Field & Stream magazines. They had ads that offered free catalogs. I would order the catalogs and read every word over and over.

If you care to add your thoughts to this thread, please do. There will be a new collector out there that needs to hear your ideas.

Thanks in advance!! :)
 
Not a young man anymore either, collecting milsurps and the neccessary accoutrements is a time consuming and very rewarding hobby when a fellow picks up a nice piece, it has been said many times to invest in quality books--the payback is enormous.

Forums such as this one and several international forums offer up an abundance of info for the experienced collector along with the new guy, just when you start to think you have a pretty good handle on things a new variation comes to light. by this I mean we are starting to loose some of the real oldtimers and their collections are coming onto the market, some items squirreled away with the owners not to computer literate, heck it used to take yrs to find the info that is contained in these online forums.

My advice to any new collector is to always buy the very best you can afford, ask questions but be respectfull at all times--these old fellows do not take kindly to a young man whom comes across with to much knowledge without paying their dues.

Best of collecting to all in the new year.
 
Cool thread..and right up my alley.

I don't know if 42 is considered young anymore, but I'm certainly young to collecting. I only got my RPAL in September but I've already bought a restored M1 Garand (alright it's a James River Armory) but everything is genuine M1 including a 1943 serial receiver, but the furniture is brand new. Also have a 1939 Sauer und Sohn K98 Mauser sitting at the post office as we speak, pick it up tomorrow. Also bought a numbers matching, un-issued 54 Tula SKS and a number matching refurb 52 Tula...yes everyone has one, and they are comparatively cheap right now but didn't that used to be the case for many milsurps that command a high price nowadays ? Will be picking up a 1891/30 Mosin Nagant and a SVT-40 in the new year while they are also still inexpensive and available.

But after those purchases...which were done as a complete noob and not with much experience (i.e. I'm not sure that maybe I paid too much for the K98)...I'm going to take a breath and save up for the next purchase which I hope to be more educated about..a No.1 Mk3 Lee Enfield.

I think a lot of new collectors like me start off without much of a plan or the experience to make wise decisions...probably a combination of somewhat un-collectables, moderately collectables that you paid too much for...and maybe a hidden gem through sheer dumb luck ; )

Anyway...I, for one, will be humbly soliciting advice from those with more experience than me. I'm mostly in it for the history of it all and not so much to try and turn big profits. Just feels awesome to hold a real piece of history in your hands !
 
Last edited:
vermintrex: I would like to pretend that I started off with a carefully thought out plan, and now sit in my expensive leather chair, smoking my $300 pipe filled with expensive foreign tobacco, wisely looking over my $5 million dollar collection of pristine, rare military one-of-a-kind rifles and sidearms, handing out sage advice on all matters. That is definitely not the case. When I started, and still to this day, I buy what catches my eye, and what I can afford.

True, I do have a bit better grasp on life in general, and, thanks to people willing to share information, a much better idea of what I have in my little pile. I, too, have an SKS or two, or three. The one I value the most was given to me by one of my closest friends, now deceased, for standing up at his wedding. He was a proud First Nations man, and we spent many hours talking guns. He came to my house one night after he was married and presented me with this rifle. In return, for being my friend, I gave him a never fired 94 30-30.

I have old-timers telling me about Lee Enfields in barrels at Farmers' Supply in Winnipeg for $5 each. Scads of old Mausers could be had for $35 each at the old Army and Navy stores. Ask me how I know that.:)

Collect what you want to collect. Let the naysayers bleat. Get some good books on the stuff you are interested in. There are many good sites on the net to glean good info from. Take it at your own pace, have cash available at all times. Have fun!!:)
 
Thanks for bringing this up kjohn. I would have to say that STARTING a collection can be difficult. At 18-19 years old, I knew what I wanted.... anything that went BANG. I would read anything I could get my hands on to further my knowledge, and kept my eyes open for anything interesting. By the time I was 21, I had A Winchester M70, a put together K98 in 7.92x57, an SKS-D with AK style mag release and an 870. A collection right? Not by my current standards. My gunsmith, who is one of my closets friends and mentor, and his business partner truly helped me get going on my collection. The first piece in my current collection was a 1903A4, and it was a true honest to god dope deal as the guy the owned it gave me a major deal knowing that I would not be selling it. Lease than a year later later from the same guy, I ended up buying a early 1903 Springfield. With each rifle, I also managed to get a box of unopened M-2 Ball from Denver Plant. Then I was introduced to bayonets as well, so it started to snow ball by this point. 4 years ago, I ended up getting into the uniforms and gear as well and the snow ball became an avalanche.

Now at 28, I have 1 sporting rifle, a browning 1886 Carbine in 45-70, the rest are US Army and USMC guns, uniforms, gear, blades, ect. It took awhile to learn not to buy impulsively, but instead to buy for the collection only and not for spur of the moment desire.
 
Thanks for the advice kjohn !

The only idea I had when I turned my eye to milsurps was "this is so cool, I'm gonna get at least one of every rifle I ever saw in a war movie, news footage or old LIFE magazine about WW1 and WW2 !!" Now that I've spent nearly all of my initial firearms savings...and haven't even come close to making a dent in the long wishlist of milsurps I think I need to catch my breath and be a bit more careful. I have to admit that when perusing the EE or some of the sponsers websites I get this sense of urgency like "these are old guns, they won't be around forever...must get this one before someone else see's it !!"...but I realize I just don't know enough at this point to recognize what is a really good deal and what can be passed up...which rifles are like finding a needle in a haystack and which ones are still plentiful enough to take your time and find a nice one.

Ah well...it's a learning process for sure...but like I said, I'll be proceeding a little bit more carefully and trying to seek out the best I can for my budget. What I love about this hobby is the history that goes with it..for every piece I become interested in I start reading about it, the conflicts it was part of, the country it was from...sometimes I find myself a couple hours later reading some fascinating history that has very little to do with the gun I started researching in the first place! lol
 
vermintrex said:
I have to admit that when perusing the EE or some of the sponsers websites I get this sense of urgency like "these are old guns, they won't be around forever...must get this one before someone else see's it !!"
Click to expand...

I know exactly how you feel. I started gaining interest in milsurp collecting when my grandpa gave me his Yugoslavian M98 which was still packed in cosmoline. At that point I was bit by the Yugo bug. For a number of years I would drool at all the Yugoslavian surplus rifles on the Marstar website. "They will always be there, I said" as I never had the money at the time. Year by year there was less and less of them. And by the time I could afford to buy a good handful, they were gone... well most of the mint condition ones. And now values have gone up by almost %40.
 
I look forward to any advice from members here on The Milsurp Forum.

Here's my Milsurp Collecting story:

Both my Grandpas are ww2 veterans of the Far East, they started my interest in firearms from a young age. When I was first getting into military history I was around 12, I would visit my British Grandad about 3 times a year. He'd show me his photos from ww2, knifes, bayonets, swords and other things he brought back from the Far East (Samauri sword, British WW1 sword,French bayonets, kris,Gurka knifes, Muslim swords, Japanese trumpet). He had an Enfield that he turned in to the militia or police at one point when there was a re-call? Or military turn in the 1950's/60's?
He'd always let me read his army books, journals and give me Amy books for my birthday and Christmas.I then started buying military history books from used book stores and book shows. My
bedroom became a library of military history, mainly from the world wars.

First Military Rifle was a Mosin my dad let me pay for at Wanstalls when I was 14 years old (5 years ago) To my surprise it turned out to be a 1939 variant PEM Ex-sniper.

I wanted to Re-scope the old PEM Mosin Nagant, found a nice repro mount that was made in A former USSR country, Kyrgyzstan. Also found the 1939 4x PEM scope close to where I was playing Ice hockey in the Kootenays hockey league.

Since then I added a Yugo K98 mauser and a Mosin PU sniper.
 
Last edited:
I got started with a 91/30 when I was 18. Now I'm 19 and have an M44, 2 SVT 40's, 4 Lee Enfields, 2 M96 Swedes, 2 M38 Swedes, and a Ljungman Ag42b.

Milsurps can be addictive :)
 
This is a great topic!!! I'm very new to collecting milsurps and shooting in general. This summer my wife and I took possession of our small acreage and we both knew that we wanted to start shooting. I got my pal and right away went and bought the typical newbie gun, a mossberg 715t tactical. I shot the hell out of it but right away thought "why did I buy this thing-old guns are way cooler!". Right then and there I knew that milsurps were what I wanted. I bought my first milsurp soon after,a sporterized no1 mk3 from a buddy at work. I did my research and asked questions on this forum and when it came time to buy it I knew what to look for and scored a nice Sporter for cheap!

I'm taking my time, asking questions of those in the know and collecting reloading equipment. I read what long time collectors post and what guns they say are quality or are "smooth" or "accurate". I figure if guys on this forum who own hundreds of guns speak highly of something then that's what I'm after. I also buy what i like not what will be a good investment. I read many post from Smellie about the Ross rifle and right away I became very intrigued with the Ross and knew I must own one. I researched the crap out of the Ross and set out to find one. Last weekend I went to a gun show and bang, there it was a full length barrel correct except cut wood Ross m1910. I took all of the knowledge I learned from all of the good people on this forum a decided to buy it. After buying it I posted it on this forum and it was as I thought a good solid Ross! I shot it this weekend and wow what a gun. Never in a million years would I have bought a Ross, I would have stayed with enfields but because I listened to those who know I've now broadened my horizons! I then of course bought an SKS cause everyone needs 5 or 6.

My little collection is growing and I'm not sure where I'm headed except whatever I buy it will stay with me for a long time.

Lastly I'd like to thank the "old-timers" that take the time to help new collectors out like my self and others. You guys have earned the knowledge through years of reading, shooting and going to shows to talk with other collectors. Anyone can google something now and get answers but the joke is if long time milsurp collectors didn't take the time to post pictures and info our searches wood come up with 0 results! Thanks again to you guys out there, I've learned so much from some of you and am humbled when someone takes the time to help a nameless faceless complete stranger over the Internet!
 
When I was still in school, my Dad used to bring home these True West magazines, all stories about Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday and Bill Hickok and Mysterious Dave Mather (who likely ended his days in the RCMP!!!!). There were always ads in there from Ye Olde Hunter for foreign rifles at ridiculous prices. The descriptions were pure BS but there were only TWO books available about military rifles at that time and they were BOTH over $10 in this country, although cheaper in the States: a week's pay plus if you were working part-time at the prevailing 50 cents an hour. I was working in the family restaurant and didn't get paid at all, but my Mom would slip me a dollar here and there and I saved them all up and added that to what I earned delivering newspapers and ordered the one I had fallen in love with: a genuine "Model 70VV Italian Sniping Rifle: Garibaldi's Greatest! Beautiful spaghetti-grained stocks and finest workmanship and........" It was $9.98 but you had to add 20% (another $1.99) to that if you were in Canada. So, still not quite sure that these were actually REAL, I piled up my $11.97, bought a stamp and sent off my order.

My rifle arrived here by steam-train, 2 weeks later, $1.30 freight COLLECT. I was on my way to school at the time, so hauled the box (with the rifle) to school and stuck it in my locker. No, it did NOT jump out and massacre anyone! Got it home and got it out of the box and it was the saddest-looking piece of junk I have EVER bought. But it was REAL. I had a friend here in town who knew EVERYTHING about guns and even loaded HIS OWN SHELLS. He loaned me HATCHER'S NOTEBOOK (which I recommend to ANYONE starting in firearms) and, later, he loaned me W.H.B. Smith's BOOK OF RIFLES and I started to learn something. I discovered that the rifle actually was an 1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali which had been converted during World War I to handle a Mannlicher magazine and so rightly should be called an 1870/87/915 and likely should be called a Vetterli-Mannlicher except that nobody calls it that, despite the Mannlicher magazine. And I learned that they were not sniping rifles but were general issue at a time of utter desperation and that Spaghetti is NOT a type of wood (the stock is Italian Walnut). I learned that the AOI brand on the butt was from AFRICA ORIENTALE ITALIANA, a COUNTRY which only lasted 6 years! And I learned that the barrel was BENT.

At that time I was spotting tractors for Ernie Symons in Rocanville. Mr. Symons ran SYMONS METALWORKERS. He was the only man in Canada (before the invention of NiCd rods) who would weld a cast-iron cylinder head and GUARANTEE the job FOR LIFE. He also made those copper-coloured oil cans which used to be everywhere and still work so very well if you can find one. I remember one night, he gave me a "tour" of his factory and actually MADE an oil can out of bits and pieces of what looked like scrap-metal as I watched. First time I ever saw metal-forming machines at work, or a draw-press, or a punch-press..... and he had made half the machines and all of the dies himself. His factory today is the property of the Government of Saskatchewan and is preserved as a Historic Industrial Building, as is only right. But he was a LIVE STEAM enthusiast and I had found him a WHITE steam traction engine and a CASE and a Rumely Oil Pull tractor and the engine out of one of the old Assiniboine River steamships which went aground and sank in 1913. He offered to straighten my barrel and did a wonderful job, using one of his larger lathes.

Well, by the time I had the Italian Sniping Rifle under control, I had discovered a STRAIGHT-PULL MAUSER which turned out to be a Mannlicher Model 1895, contract-built in 1903 for the King of Bulgaria but there were no shells for it and there was a French rifle called a Lebel which was actually a Berthier and there was a REAL LEE-ENFIELD with the original 1896 COPPER BARREL..... which turned out to be a disastrously-dangerous "Farmer Fix" which has not been sold because it is just too damned dangerous to let out of the house. I have a milling-machine now, so I think I might remove the barrel from that one and section the barrel for an exhibit on just how NOT to do it. And I paid far too much for a MARTINI when they were on the go, but at least my $17 got me one which is an original .577/.450 Mark IV and it is STILL UNFIRED AND IN GREASE, so I think I should get my money back on that one, anyway......

And so it grew. I had a Carcano before Lee Harvey Oswald bought his, got clips for it from Klein's in Chicago after their ad was shown in LIFE magazine with LHO's Model 38 over the ad..... and before they pulled any and all ads with Carcanos in them. When Kennedy was shot, the CBC announced that the job had been done with a ".30-30 Mauser" and, even though I might have been young and dumb, I wasn't dumb enough to fall for THAT one! So I waited an extra day and got the Winnipeg Free Press...... and there was a rifle nearly identical to mine! Wups! And then to discover that I shared my BIRTHDAY with this clown: double WUUPPS! And then to discover only a few years later that the new PRIME MINISTER shared my birthday: triple WWWUUUPPPS!!! So when I started writing fiction, I created the nicest girl I have ever known and gave her my birthday..... just so I could share it with someone who wasn't a nut-bar killer or a Communist agent!

So that's how it started, with incredulosity and trepidation and endless misteaks. It continued through a fascination, not with the shooting but with the endless MECHANISMS which all do the same things in different ways and it continues today through a fascination with the history which these things have MADE. THEY are what have MADE OUR WORLD as we have it today, like it or not.

But I still wish I had had the money to buy a whole raft of those Berdan Is and Berdan IIs and Werndls......... at $9.98...... plus $1.30 shipping......

...... by an actual 4-6-2 Mogul with a 150-pound-boiler STEAM TRAIN smelling like hot iron and steam and flashpoint grease.

I am on here because there still is a lot that I DON'T know.... and there is always something new coming out of the woodwork.

If I can help a few of the new guys, well, it might pay back for the help I had when I was starting out, better than half a century ago.

And that's the story.
 
Last edited:
canuck said:
and a good one it was,as usual.
Thanks smellie!
Click to expand...

There is a god, and he is Smellie..
But seriously, you mentioned you wrote fiction, now there is something surely entertaining that I'd like to add to my Christmas list!
As to the original post, great topic! As a new collector of milsurps, I'm drawn to them due to the history and legacy, plus the enduring nature of the rifles.
I started as a WW2 living history member, and only recently realized I really like the Enfield No 4 , and have jumped in with both feet.
I expect that the older generation of collectors will slowly be releasing their collections on to the market, thereby passing some very desirable models back into the market. Let's hope the new generations will have the same desire to preserve these artifacts for the next generation.
Vincent
 
Yes, we Old Farts are starting to become a bit thin on the ground.

Had a visit yesterday from a very good friend who is a dealer. We were talking about this and that and "sales" came up. He is selling off the ESTATE of another good friend who passed away recently. A huge number of Winchesters already have been sold but there are some left. I showed my friend (who is almost as computer-illiterate as I am) how to work with the EE and there will be some SPLENDID items coming up for sale there in the near future.

The Tommies already have a new home. Damn!

But there will also be a VOLCANIC PISTOL coming up for sale. I had that precise Volcanic apart for servicing, about 15 years ago. It is complete, it is original and it has a good bore. IIRC, it is a .31-calibre lever-action, brass-framed, tube-magazined, toggle-locked pistol which uses Volcanic ammunition developed from the Hunt Rocket Ball. It is the origin of Smith & Wesson and of Winchester both, and its design inspired the Maxim Machine Gun. It will be offered for sale in the near future. The PRICE is in 5 figures but, for something THIS rare, it is worth considering. I'm just hoping that I get to take the pictures for it.

So yes, the Really Good Ones come back onto the market..... but it can take a good long time. I know for a fact that that particular collection was more than 30 years in the building and was upgraded at every opportunity. It's not often that one gets to see FORTY 1886 Winchesters on the same rack..... and no two alike..... and each one the BEST which could be located. Or ALL of the known variants of the '66. Things like that.

But now they are "on the loose" again.

They HAVE to be corralled!
 
I bought my first firearm when I was 6 years old. Cooey Ranger. I hid it in the barn, so no one would know I had it. It turned out my father knew about the purchase about 10 minutes after the fact. He let me keep my secret for over a year. He wanted to see how responsible I would be with it. I had a hell of a time keeping the rust off it, and of course getting ammo to feed it. Ammo was 12 cents for a 50 round box of shorts in my town in 1957. The fellow at the local gas station didn't even bat an eye when I would buy a box.

My father, who was adamantly anti firearm, one day told me to bring the rifle into the house, so it wouldn't get so rusty. He never once asked me to get rid of it or try to hold onto the ammo. Mind you, it was my job to shoot the pigs/steers, come that time of year. He just couldn't bring himself to do it. Fair enough.

I gave that rifle to a decent youngster, when he was 8, about 20 years later. He still has it.

There is one other thing I did as well, I bought every rifle I could get my hands on. Most people in those days, still had bad memories from WWII and Korea, so full dress milsurps were frowned upon. Buying one to cut down was considered to be OK but that was about it.

I bought randomly and in quantity when I could afford it. Same goes for ammo. I had everything I could dream of at one time or another. Now, many of those pieces are nothing more than distant memories, like the 5 digit broomhandle mauser in excellent condition. I was offered enough for it to pay for the complete electrical system for the house I was building in 1977 and away it went. I enjoyed it for 8 years though.

Same can be said for many of the firearms, P08s, P38s, Mauser Hsc, PPks, Thompsons, Reisings, Lanchesters, Stens, Mp38 - 40s, just to name a few. Rifles from every nation on earth, in anywhere from pristine to junk condition.

I still have many of those rifles and some day, most of them will go to my step son and grandson.

In the meantime, as I go through the vaults, I sell off a few at gunshows or answer the odd WTB ad on the EE. I've learned some lessons on the EE about some of the rifles I thought I had and the stories I bought with them. Good learning curve though and each of the individuals were real gentlemen about my mistaken identities. Thanks fellows.

Firearms, go about in circles. One of the most common ways we lose them forever is lack of interest and a spouse that has her head somewhere it shouldn't be and she turns them in for destruction, instead of putting them onto the market after her husband passes on.

Don't be afraid to hit the yard sales and ask about firearms hidden away that the people might want to dispose of or sell. It's absolutely mind boggling what turns up. I recently purchased a very nice 1903A3 at a yard sale that had been mounted in a Bishop stock. $200. Sadly, it's been drilled and tapped but it will make a lovely sniper clone. I don't think the rifle has more than a hundred rounds down the tube.

The stuff is out there. Get off the couch and go looking for it. Lots of good ole boys have this stuff sitting in the closet or in the garage, out of mind and sight, until you remind them of it. Their wives, could likely care less.

By the way smellie, I still have my Berdan II. I also have my first Martini Enfield, which was my first big bore hunting rifle. The ammo was available at the 3 Vets store for $3 a pack of ten. That was darned expensive when I was 13.
 
By the way smellie, I still have my Berdan II. I also have my first Martini Enfield, which was my first big bore hunting rifle. The ammo was available at the 3 Vets store for $3 a pack of ten. That was darned expensive when I was 13.

My God!!! the old 3 Vets in Van. What memories. I got the 1903 Ross off the wall there in the late 50's for the horrible price of $15 or $18.00 That was a lot of money in those days, but the rifle was near mint. The surplus those guys had was incredible...Remember the Browning Hi-Power butts at $3.00 each. Almost as good was the old Army and Navy and BC Collateral down at "Bum's Square".
Bearhunter and I should get together some day and fire the Ross in memory of "Tiny".......
Now, if Smellie would drop in again for supper we'd have more time to shoot the "sh1t" . Don't think the old station wagon would make it this far again... :)##
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom